Dragonarmy revisited

[Cherek]

Amberlee: I was mainly responding to your comment about grinding areas you know?

B when it comes to guilds,

Evil:
Morgul Mages (best solo PVP guild)
Priests of Takhisis (recoded now, so you may want reconsider your statement about healing)
Army of Darkness (best combat stats + lethal PVP ability)
BDA (best solo grinding guild)
RDA (needs an update)
Angmar (designed to be the evil tank guild? lots of complaints about their power though)

Good:

Calians (best team guild, poor solo)
Knights (good allround guild)
Neidars (best tank guild)
Scops (not very up to date and in need of a recode)
Rangers (needs an update)

Some would probably disagree with me about who are goodies and evils, I suppose. Some would argue that Neidars and/or Ogres are actually neutral, and some would argue that Scops are too (just anti-undead). Some even say Calians are neutral these days. One could say that the Secret Society is a goodie guild too, but considering the chaotic nature of kenders and their skillset, they feel more like a neutral guild in Genesis, even though kenders can't have evil align. But the above is how I would divide our guilds into good and evil at least. Edit: And Amberlee feels the mages are "beyond evil", so... like I said, who are goodies and evils can always be argued.

So we have 6 evil guilds and 5 goodie. Both sides have a few "top" guilds in their class, both sides have one or two guilds needing an update. No I don't really see that goodies somehow are the superior set of guilds. I really don't. There are very powerful options on both sides. And I don't think Arman's proposed changes, with the goal of making RDA _better_ is likely to remove the "only viable evil option". Because no, they are not the only viable evil option, and making RDA better will _increase_ the options. And BDA aren't going to lose power? It's just being redistributed?

[Draugor]

Evil:
Morgul Mages (best solo PVP guild)

Actually, sologrind under myth is a pain as a MM, 2 mages is insane tho, but solo? No plix unless BIG or imbued up yer arse

[Amberlee]

To correct you Cherek.
No BDA is not the best solo grinding guild.
That's Knights.
PoT are recoded yeah but still not best healing guilds.. There is SCOP and Rangers.
MM does not count for the very reason that Draugor mentioned.. More so it's very easy to make yourself highly resistant to their spells.
They are beyond good and evil.. They are in fact their own faction separate from the alignments.
Army of Darkness are neutral, not evil.(I base this as ogres could easily fight on either side of any conflict and are not restricted by any alignment)
AA are severely underpowered and not even comparable with Neidar.

[Cherek]

Evil:
Morgul Mages (best solo PVP guild)

Actually, sologrind under myth is a pain as a MM, 2 mages is insane tho, but solo? No plix unless BIG or imbued up yer arse

I did write PVP though, not grind?:)

[Cherek]

To correct you Cherek.
No BDA is not the best solo grinding guild.
That's Knights.
PoT are recoded yeah but still not best healing guilds.. There is SCOP and Rangers.
MM does not count for the very reason that Draugor mentioned.. More so it's very easy to make yourself highly resistant to their spells.
They are beyond good and evil.. They are in fact their own faction separate from the alignments.
Army of Darkness are neutral, not evil.(I base this as ogres could easily fight on either side of any conflict and are not restricted by any alignment)
AA are severely underpowered and not even comparable with Neidar.

You're saying a knight does more XP/hour (because how else do you count best solo grinder?) even though BDA has the higher DPS output?

Despite how new the PoT recode is, you already know everything there is to know about them. You KNOW that the ancient ranger guild and the non-recoded Scops are so much better?

So MM's are too evil to count? Come on, now you're using "alternative facts". Obviously the Morgul Mages is a guild for players who want to play an evil character. They are the definition of evil in Genesis, and are clearly evil-align restricted. And you're actually saying it's easy to beat a mage in a PVP fight now? Isn't the number one complaint here the exact opposite?

If AoD are neutral, then we might as well say Neidars and Calians are too. Sure they have _some_ align restrictions, but we've seen Calians team with both BDAs and AAs havent we? If we keep this up we don't have any goodies or evils left, if we only count those who prove our point best...

[Amberlee]

To correct you Cherek.
No BDA is not the best solo grinding guild.
That's Knights.
PoT are recoded yeah but still not best healing guilds.. There is SCOP and Rangers.
MM does not count for the very reason that Draugor mentioned.. More so it's very easy to make yourself highly resistant to their spells.
They are beyond good and evil.. They are in fact their own faction separate from the alignments.
Army of Darkness are neutral, not evil.(I base this as ogres could easily fight on either side of any conflict and are not restricted by any alignment)
AA are severely underpowered and not even comparable with Neidar.

You're saying a knight does more XP/hour (because how else do you count best solo grinder?) even though BDA has the higher DPS output?

Despite how new the PoT recode is, you already know everything there is to know about them. You KNOW that the ancient ranger guild and the non-recoded Scops are so much better?

So MM's are too evil to count? Come on, now you're using "alternative facts". Obviously the Morgul Mages is a guild for players who want to play an evil character. They are the definition of evil in Genesis, and are clearly evil-align restricted. And you're actually saying it's easy to beat a mage in a PVP fight now? Isn't the number one complaint here the exact opposite?

If AoD are neutral, then we might as well say Neidars and Calians are too. Sure they have _some_ align restrictions, but we've seen Calians team with both BDAs and AAs havent we? If we keep this up we don't have any goodies or evils left, if we only count those who prove our point best...

Neidars and Calians are declared goodies.. You know that.
MM aren't too evil to count, but they ARE their own faction within a faction and would never back any of the evil guilds.
Also Rangers and SCOP are better, not only because of their healing but also their utility beyond that.

As for knights.
They can do just as much XP/Hour as BDA.
Perhaps even better(Of course we don't count Morrison size here because that breaks the game and is unlikely for ANY other person except him, regardless of guilds)
Want to know why you think otherwise?
Because you see no knights doing it for the very reason they are mostly stuck at hero'ish and have no idea how to properly grind in the game.

[Cherek]

Well, since this discussion continued on the chat instead, I see no point in taking it further here anymore. We all have different opinions on which is the best guild at what, who is good or evil, etc.

Let's steer back the discussion about the DA recode again. I'll trust Arman on this, and as you said, if it turns out fine I can say "I told you so", otherwise you can tell that to me.

[Amberlee]

Well, since this discussion continued on the chat instead, I see no point in taking it further here anymore. We all have different opinions on which is the best guild at what, who is good or evil, etc.

Let's steer back the discussion about the DA recode again. I'll trust Arman on this, and as you said, if it turns out fine I can say "I told you so", otherwise you can tell that to me.

Sounds like a deal

[Arman]

To correct you Cherek.
No BDA is not the best solo grinding guild.
That's Knights.
PoT are recoded yeah but still not best healing guilds.. There is SCOP and Rangers.
MM does not count for the very reason that Draugor mentioned.. More so it's very easy to make yourself highly resistant to their spells.
They are beyond good and evil.

The BDA have as good combat capacity as knights, even before they bring their dragons into the equation.

I wont talk much about the abilities of the PoT, apart from saying they are the Calians of healing. Cherek was gently calling you out on that statement, as he is very familiar with their recode. Not to say SCoP or rangers aren't good healers... but...

As for the MMs, they are the stereotype of evil. I think you have drunk too much of the Dark Lord's cool aid if you think they are anything but the blackest of souls . Easier to sideline them though, as it doesn't fit the narrative of "wizard evil bashing/nerfing again", I get it.

Want to know why you think otherwise?
Because you see no knights doing it for the very reason they are mostly stuck at hero'ish and have no idea how to properly grind in the game.

These arguments with Cherek are kind of pointless. Cherek knows EXACTLY the benefits of each guild. He has access to all their source code. So do I. When mapping out what needed to be done to fix RDA I reviewed every combat guild. The numbers don't lie.

I am not rushing to recode the guilds, and am open to player feedback from all points of view. I find it all really valuable, and am not closed to suggestions. But come on, let's keep it as factual as possible and keep the emotion and histrionics out of it. Let's agree that the wizards are king of the numbers, and the players are king of the experience.

The experience I want players of the DAs to have is one where they are good solo warriors, with the incredible benefit of dragons fighting alongside them. That latter part I feel is underwhelming for both Dragonarmies... and for the RDAs they aren't even good solo warriors. Should a DA notice a difference without their dragon support? I think yes.

The primary thing BDA will notice is they will lose intimidate. As I've said before, that should NEVER have come in in the last review. It is essentially indoor dragonfear. Apart from that the rebalancing is going to be very minor.

[Amberlee]

I am not rushing to recode the guilds, and am open to player feedback from all points of view. I find it all really valuable, and am not closed to suggestions. But come on, let's keep it as factual as possible and keep the emotion and histrionics out of it. Let's agree that the wizards are king of the numbers, and the players are king of the experience.

The experience I want players of the DAs to have is one where they are good solo warriors, with the incredible benefit of dragons fighting alongside them. That latter part I feel is underwhelming for both Dragonarmies... and for the RDAs they aren't even good solo warriors. Should a DA notice a difference without their dragon support? I think yes.

The primary thing BDA will notice is they will lose intimidate. As I've said before, that should NEVER have come in in the last review. It is essentially indoor dragonfear. Apart from that the rebalancing is going to be very minor.

This is good to know.
Because frankly, allocating the oomph to the dragons to that degree WILL hurt the guild ALOT.
Unless you give them the same benefits at indoor locations too.
Another issue with alocating the oomph to dragons is they will get hurt the same way as to why Glads kinda suck.
A special that don't factor in weapon quality.. This is a bad thing and a way should be found to factor that into the equation.
All in all.
Standing in an outside area I think the guild will be somewhat stronger PvP wise with this taken into consideration.