Genesis Forums

Okay first off this is not meant to be a flame.. If it is too negative or whatever then the mod can dump me into the flame section (again).

I see an issue with the Knights and the way their horses where recoded.
I think it was a lazy option employed that detracts from the "realistic" atmosphere of the realms.

Before the recode Knights in the cavalry could not always rely on having their horse follow them into some of the more remote grinders.
Eg Terel trolls. When they did not have their horse available for specials they got an extra melee special instead.

Recoded horses addresses this issue by sticking to the knights like glue, no matter how they move...
I think this was a silly workaround. Why should their horse be able to climb a cliff? to "pass carefully through stalagmites" etc
There are a lot of exp areas to choose from, mounted combat should be more effective in open areas than cramped caves.
So I see for example a Noldor horse left at foot of a cliff and the Solamnian horse climb right on up there.

In contrast the dragon armies still have to think about indoors outdoors.
If you want to follow the to hell with the rules lets just bend them model why not make dragon armies dragons smash their way into the cave...
It is no less realistic than having monkey skilled horses...

Or revert horses back to before and give alternative specials when mounted combat not available?

I also am of an opinion that previously KoS were more "knightly" when the cavalry not only occupied their layman slot, but also when their horses were meant primarily for outdoor combat (previously, Krynn guilds encouraged outdoor fighting with DAs and KoS having part of their special features only available there).

Horses don't give Horsefear Nor allow them to escape from an area when in danger. Also, the cavalry damage was downgraded (which was one of the complains from existing knights). I don't see anything wrong with horses following them, the cavalry of the Knighthood is the best trained in the Krynn domain, so it should have certain advantages that aren't available for others. It is odd that you can call your horse and it would arrive to Icewall, but so messengers and floating skulls do.

I don't want to be at the bottom of the cliff during the horse mountain climbing training sessions.

If you want to make it realistic, allow the knight to climb to the top of the cliff and build a crane to hoist the horse up. Kit for the crane bought in Solamnia and quite heavy (once built stays there till other destroys it) Hoist can be lowered fast but must be manually raised, slow and very tiring + requiring high strength, with certainty of dropping and killing the horse + perhaps a passerby if you reach extremely exhausted. Need to blindfold the horse or it panics.
But team mates can help with this, not a nice idea for solo squire to bring his horse up a cliff then but not terribly inconvenient for 4 myth knights just a few minutes work.

Passing into Icewall, you lead the horse and have a 50% chance of horse slipping and falling to its death. If you forget to hold the reigns loosely +10% chance of taking you with it...

Plus for all indoors combat largely reduced effectiveness of move away and charge abilities. Its not horsefear but abilities are still relevant..
Make npcs indoors have very high chance of attacking horses first. Knights can rescue the horse but again harder to do so indoors so may take more trys.

Plus have horses crap a lot... So someone can tell you are on a "warm" trail of the rampaging niggets.
Unless the Squires want to keep lifting it! Hehe, heards its good for Rose knights.

Also make the bond between rider and horse something that grows and the Knight has an attachment to a particular horse.
So effect is -30% horse specials effectiveness on a unfamiliar horse +10% on your trusted veteran (takes a decent amount of time to get there).
They are also seemingly immediately replaceable, have them cost plats, 10 for a mediocre one 100+ for a great one, that gives more benefit.
Perhaps the "level/quality" of horse available limited for squires.. Or no mounted combat at all for squires?

Give the horses a unique temperament, some may attack and join in, others may be great on the plains but throw their riders and panic when attacked indoors.
That is a lot of work, but getting to know a horses strengths and weaknesses could add a lot of depth to Nigget experience.
A knight may have more than one horse, a disposable one for heading to Icewall and one to be better looked after which is their pride and joy.

Horses lie around the plains like litter as they do not have to be killed to conquer. Untended horses from npc knights should disappear back to Solamnia after a time and not be steal-able by player knights. Although its realistic that warhorses are trained to not move when reigns slack and no rider.

I think Knights would like this bond..
And I would enjoy killing their horses on them.

Tarax the Terrible wrote:I don't want to be at the bottom of the cliff during the horse mountain climbing training sessions.

If you want to make it realistic, allow the knight to climb to the top of the cliff and build a crane to hoist the horse up. Kit for the crane bought in Solamnia and quite heavy (once built stays there till other destroys it) Hoist can be lowered fast but must be manually raised, slow and very tiring + requiring high strength, with certainty of dropping and killing the horse + perhaps a passerby if you reach extremely exhausted. Need to blindfold the horse or it panics.
But team mates can help with this, not a nice idea for solo squire to bring his horse up a cliff then but not terribly inconvenient for 4 myth knights just a few minutes work.

Passing into Icewall, you lead the horse and have a 50% chance of horse slipping and falling to its death. If you forget to hold the reigns loosely +10% chance of taking you with it...

Plus for all indoors combat largely reduced effectiveness of move away and charge abilities. Its not horsefear but abilities are still relevant..
Make npcs indoors have very high chance of attacking horses first. Knights can rescue the horse but again harder to do so indoors so may take more trys.

Plus have horses crap a lot... So someone can tell you are on a "warm" trail of the rampaging niggets.
Unless the Squires want to keep lifting it! Hehe, heards its good for Rose knights.

Also make the bond between rider and horse something that grows and the Knight has an attachment to a particular horse.
So effect is -30% horse specials effectiveness on a unfamiliar horse +10% on your trusted veteran (takes a decent amount of time to get there).
They are also seemingly immediately replaceable, have them cost plats, 10 for a mediocre one 100+ for a great one, that gives more benefit.
Perhaps the "level/quality" of horse available limited for squires.. Or no mounted combat at all for squires?

Give the horses a unique temperament, some may attack and join in, others may be great on the plains but throw their riders and panic when attacked indoors.
That is a lot of work, but getting to know a horses strengths and weaknesses could add a lot of depth to Nigget experience.
A knight may have more than one horse, a disposable one for heading to Icewall and one to be better looked after which is their pride and joy.

Horses lie around the plains like litter as they do not have to be killed to conquer. Untended horses from npc knights should disappear back to Solamnia after a time and not be steal-able by player knights. Although its realistic that warhorses are trained to not move when reigns slack and no rider.

I think Knights would like this bond..
And I would enjoy killing their horses on them.

In regards to your other comments, knight layman cavalry was downgraded quite a bit when it was merged into the occ guild. Most of the benefits were removed, so they decided to give us better trained horses instead. I won't go into specifics of how this was done (not to reveal guild information that might affect enemy tactics), but in exchange, our horses became better trained. There are already limitations on places where our horses cannot go, but I won't share specifics regarding that either.

There are already NPC's that engage in combat with our horses. This happens very rarely, but something you probably don't want to happen often. I was in the room with 3 other knights, so four knights and four horses all banging away at an NPC was quite interesting. Even though we didn't end up killing the NPC, the doubling of enemies on one NPC reduces the effectiveness of regular combat... Just something to think about.

Knights already have an attachment to a particular horse. Breaking that bond creates certain...consequences.

If we're going to go with realism, we can also address:

- How ANYONE, no matter how strong, is able to carry a bagful of armor and a couple dozen weapons, along with food, beer, herbs, money, gems, miscellaneous items, etc. This is to say nothing of the ability to carry loads of PEOPLE and ANIMALS! (urchins, pages, etc.)

- How characters can change races and genders.

- How Krynn, Middle Earth, Earthsea, and all the other domains all co-exist in some sort of bizarre amalgam with only a 30 second boat ride separating any domain.

etc, etc.

I'm a big roleplayer, and I'm all for realism when it adds to the fun of the game. If it makes the game more tedious, "realism" should not be the goal.

The old horses were tedious.

Of course, just as I can RP away a race or gender change, I can also RP my horse maneuvering around. There are, by the way, several places where the horse CAN'T climb up with me. I dismiss him and I resummon him, but I can RP that the horse found some alternate path up the cliff that was too long and/or treacherous for me to climb or for the horse to negotiate with a rider on his back

If it is inequity you are concerned with, I would have no problem with some of these features being added to standard or racial steeds. And certainly, wizards should (and do) have the freedom to code zones where steeds cannot be summoned and/or do not function.

I have to agree on this "monkey horses" effect being very silly.

There are some realism issues that disturb the viewer more than others.

[quote="Earth]
Knights already have an attachment to a particular horse. Breaking that bond creates certain...consequences.[/quote]

like alimony and child support?



-b

Recoba wrote:I have to agree on this "monkey horses" effect being very silly.

There are some realism issues that disturb the viewer more than others.

I guess for me its more the fact that it was intentionally changed to be less realistic.
If they can send the horse away and call it back, why make them stick to them as well?

Playability > Realism