More community ideas to promote Genesis

[Makfly]

We haven't staff to create rich flash interactive maps.

Maximum complexity we can reach is a minimal image-mapping.

We cannot support hand-drawn maps, they are not maintainable.
Why don't you try the AutoRealm software?
http://sourceforge.net/projects/autorealm/files/

It's good.

I was looking into this as well, after your first post about it...and it's just that I honestly think the maps I've seen so far that were made with AutoRealms are ugly as sin. No offense.

But I can see the argument for maintainability. Is that a big issue?

If anyone is also looking into this, I found this site, which is pretty useful for information and inspiration:
http://www.cartographersguild.com/content.php

Will spend a little more time looking into what's possible with AutoRealms, maybe someone has managed to make something that doesn't look so amateurish.

[Cherek]

I looked into autorealm awhile ago in the process of trying to help out Tapakah but as mentioned, gave up before I got anywhere... (Sorry again)

Sadly, the amateur feel of autorealm kinda put me off too. I totally get the maintain-thing though. Who's gonna update the handrawn maps? We cant always trust Rheagar to be around so however the maps are made they must be able to be maintained, because if they are out of date they are no good.

At the same time, the autorealm style is to me something that would put me off when surfing the (new) webpage so thats not perfect either.

Anyway I, I have some other suggestions for mapmaking software. How about using this software:

http://www.profantasy.com/products/cc3.asp

I tried both this and autorealm, they both work more or less the same way, but with this one it is possible to provide much more aestethically pleasing maps.

Like this:

http://www.darkleagues.com/fantasymappi ... -style.htm

And for more:

http://sub.profantasy.com/2007/gallery.html
http://sub.profantasy.com/2008/gallery.html
http://sub.profantasy.com/2009/gallery.html

Its not spectacular, but its not so bad either I think. Especially not if you do some custom brushes which it supports. So if someone decently skilled in handdrawing (like Rhaegar?) he could create a set brushes and add them to the package and then anyone could maintain it. Personally I especially like the black and white hand-drawn-style maps in the gallery above. But color isnt bad either.

Or for a more retro look there is "Hexmapper". Its way simpler to use than the above Cartographer 3 but still nicer output than autorealm I think.

http://breeyark.org/images/map_peopledrealms_dom.png

Could work, I mean if you cant do handrawn, do it "bad" but with retro style so it seems like design choice and "cool". One could even use it to do "mud-style" maps, green on black background if one wants to chose that style.

I think Cartographer 3 would be perfect for our needs though.

What do you think Tapakah and Rhaegar? Have any of you tried those programs?

[Makfly]

No doubt the Cartographer program would be useful and seems to be able to put out some decent quality work, but the pricetag on it is insane.

I have a feeling that the Admin don't want to rely on pirated software, which makes the ProFantasy software out of the question, unfortunately.

By the way, I agree on the monocrome maps. Much better than neon coloured ones. Gives it a more toned down, Tolkien-ish look.

[Cherek]

Makfly: $45 isnt much, you think? I think its about what this type of software would be expected to cost. Far from the pricetags on more advanced software for sure.

Pirated software? I dont know. Why not? I mean large parts of the Genesis game relies on using written material without permission... I bet people use pirated software for coding LPC/htlm, for creating graphics to the webpage,´etc. Allthough that doesnt show of course... Anyway its for non commercial purposes so the risk of using pirated software would be microscopic if any. But then again, $45 is nothing really... I bet there are some money left from some old hardware upgrade? or I am sure we, the community would, donate $5 each or something for the web project if needed.

One could always try the pirated version of the program and if it provides kickass maps for us I am sure the money issue could be easily solved.

[Rhaegar]

Unfortunately, despite me feeling quite comfortable with ink, pen, brushes and paints, my skills do not translate into computer software

Perhaps with a tablet... But even then I'd probably have to spend a month or so just to get a feel for it.

[Cherek]

Unfortunately, despite me feeling quite comfortable with ink, pen, brushes and paints, my skills do not translate into computer software

Perhaps with a tablet... But even then I'd probably have to spend a month or so just to get a feel for it.

I meant you draw on paper. Scan, and then whoever uses the mapmaking software import your drawing and fix brushes from what you drew. Like me for instance. (in theory only, not signing up for anything here!:)

Anyway, then we could get a handdrawn feel while still have the software with custom brushes that ayone with some computer skill can use and maintain.

Or you go for the default brushes, for a less unique, but perhaps easier job.

[Makfly]

Makfly: $45 isnt much, you think? I think its about what this type of software would be expected to cost. Far from the pricetags on more advanced software for sure.

Pirated software? I dont know. Why not? I mean large parts of the Genesis game relies on using written material without permission... I bet people use pirated software for coding LPC/htlm, for creating graphics to the webpage,´etc. Allthough that doesnt show of course... Anyway its for non commercial purposes so the risk of using pirated software would be microscopic if any. But then again, $45 is nothing really... I bet there are some money left from some old hardware upgrade? or I am sure we, the community would, donate $5 each or something for the web project if needed.

One could always try the pirated version of the program and if it provides kickass maps for us I am sure the money issue could be easily solved.

I didn't say I had anything against trying it out with pirated software, I just said that I presume the Admin does, or else why would Tapakah insist that the maps MUST be made with a crappy tool that hasn't been updated in 5 years and produces something that looks like it's 1995?
My guess, because the Admin wants it to be legit. I could be wrong ofcourse.

Also the 45$ pricetag is one thing, I presumed we needed to get some add-ons to actually made it fairly useful, and those add-ons are 25-40$ ontop of the 45$ for the initial program.

Perhaps, if the Admin are okay with not buying the software, and we can find it somewhere with some useful add-ons, then it sounds like a better solution that AutoRealm to me.

[Tapakah]

I did a massive research on the matter when the original maps came out. It was 2006 or something, so AutoRealms was then quite up-to-date. I tried also Fractal Mapper, Campaign Cartographer and one more commercial piece of software. In 2006 I found AutoRealms quite competitive with three major advantages:
1. It's Free so I can give it to any Liege and ask him or her to draw the map of the domain and pass it back to me. (2 Lieges did that then).
2. It has extendable libraries of icons, so we ourselves, given we have a decent artist with hands-on computer graphics (the candidate was Czucz then) can produce icons and textures we'll love.
3. It saves as XML so actually we can edit the maps to a certain limits without the need to use AutoRealms as an editor, just change coordinates or add this or that icon, run export, and you've got the new stuff.

I am sorry to see the stalemate in AutoRealms 3 which is developed but very slowly, but it's going to be Python/Gtk. I am subscribed to the list of the project and the activity exists, but not too encouraging.

For any commercial product we may want to use, it's cost for every person involved (possibly including Lieges), and Makfly mentioned add-ons invalidating it even further. CC3 doesn't even have a limited-usage demo version. We're not considering pirate versions.

I fully support monochrome design. I don't think AutoRealms is that bad. Consider this map:
http://autorealm.sourceforge.net/pics/m ... /Raven.jpg

I think we can sharpen AutoRealms and its symbol/texture library for our needs and produce great monochrome maps.
T.

[Rhaegar]

Ok now. Sorry Tapakah to bring down your beloved AutoRealms, but what if the maps weren't interactive? So what if you can't click on something to zoom the area etc.
What if I just made the hand-drawn maps of the realms and you could upload it as simple .jpg, .bmp .png or whatever file extension you want? I can't speak for everyone here, but for me, if I had just the general outline of what's where, would be a great asset.
(anyone who ever tried ESIII: Morrowind for the first time, and didn't have map will know what I'm talking about)
If anyone would be interested in helping in such endavour please PM me, so I can give you my email to which you could send me your basic concepts of what should be included in the maps (doesn't have to be the map itself, just that you would like to see XXX shown on the map, general suggestions etc. Of course, basic maps with outlines are more than welcome) so I could prepare a couple of preliminary sketches people could vote on and those would be included on the main site.
A bit like the current map of Ansalon/Krynn that's incorporated into the website but is taken from somewhere else.

I'm thinking here of the monochrome maps that give away the general outline of the Realms (ie: parts of the original worlds with content available in the game) in the A4 format. Someone skilled with computer graphics could then possibly add higher resolution to it (seeing as the standard now is full HD - 1920x1080) and perhaps additional effects, like burned scroll etc.

Edit: AutoRealm created maps seem really bad

P. S.
It could also be a good PR that the maps were made by the member of the current playerbase, and not some random person.

[Cherek]

Tapakah: The example you posted was by far the best autorealm map I have ever seen. I did not know it was capable of that. It is not worse at all on Cartographer. Perhaps I never gave it a serious chance when I tried it previously...

I think if we could have that stule of maps it would be perfectly fine and nothing to be ashamed of at all.

Rhaeger: I still think a better solution would be if you draw a map-template, then someone else could convert your map to icons to use in a mapmaking software. Then we could get a handdraw feel, but still have the editability with the problem.

If you do all the maps, only you can update them and draw new in the same style, with a program anyone can do it. Well... not anyone, but anyone with some computer skills and some eye for what looks good and what doesnt.