Limited Items.

[Tapakah]

And then there are also the fact that the AoP really couldnt be bothered with this, since you have more important things to do then run after the guys second who stole a trinket from a rack to give it to his main character..

Having contact between your own seconds is a very serious rule violation and will certainly be punished by the AoP.

So how come a certain knight isnt in trouble then?

Killing npc with one char, giving equip to middle-hand, then mysteriously eq shows up in first chars guild rack.

Lets face it, wizards do not really care about people using alts to share eq with, at least thats my experience
that nobody gets caught for doing it.

Have a transcript? Or heard a rumour?
T.

[Windemere]

I know that solid evidence is really important, but, it is basically impossible to get.

If you wanted to prove that someone was trading gear with their primary:

1. you'd have to know who their second and primary chars are.
2. you'd have to be with the middle man when the second gives it and when the primary picks it up
3. you'd have to be a wizard.
4. you'd have to be the middle person.

I mean really, it is not something you can just get. Wizards are the only ones with the ability to see what others are doing without being there.

What we can do, however, is if we happen to know a primary and secondary char and we see X with the eq (like FBB) and then 20 minutes later we see Y with an FBB and X has logged out, it becomes pretty clear that something may have happened.

Windemere.

[Laurel]

Lets face it, wizards do not really care about people using alts to share eq with, at least thats my experience
that nobody gets caught for doing it.

oh no - people do get "caught", but they just say "we're RL brothers and we happen to play together"

I'm pissing on your face from my window. You can't see me, you come up to my apartment and try to smash my nose into my skull ... but I'm saying "it wasn't me" and you ... well, you leave cause you cannot prove that eventho there was noone else in my appartment, there were no other windows open ... you didn't catch me!

still pissing and you still call it "a rainy day" pathetic ...

[OgreToyBoy]

...or perhaps someone in a guild decided to piss off his 'friends' and looted the rack and gave to the guilds worst enemy.
Moments later deciding to log off. Perhaps alts working together but if there are two characters with different owners
I'd say its within the rules. Some characters only exist to be a pain for the guilds it manage to squeeze into. Perhaps stealing and
destroying just for the fun of it, just like some persons act in real life.
I also think these fellows need to be part of this game, if you want more control be more selective with your recruitment.
If its a free to join guild, then you already got my solution.

[Zorath]

...or perhaps someone in a guild decided to piss off his 'friends' and looted the rack and gave to the guilds worst enemy.
Moments later deciding to log off. Perhaps alts working together but if there are two characters with different owners
I'd say its within the rules. Some characters only exist to be a pain for the guilds it manage to squeeze into. Perhaps stealing and
destroying just for the fun of it, just like some persons act in real life.
I also think these fellows need to be part of this game, if you want more control be more selective with your recruitment.
If its a free to join guild, then you already got my solution.

It makes me really sad to read this.

With this kind of attitude, the problem will never be solved.
Sounds like everyone got that "second" into every guild, just to screw up racks.

[OgreToyBoy]

All I can say is that I got no alt or anything if that comfort you

[Tapakah]

I know that solid evidence is really important, but, it is basically impossible to get.

If you wanted to prove that someone was trading gear with their primary:

1. you'd have to know who their second and primary chars are.
2. you'd have to be with the middle man when the second gives it and when the primary picks it up
3. you'd have to be a wizard.
4. you'd have to be the middle person.

I mean really, it is not something you can just get. Wizards are the only ones with the ability to see what others are doing without being there.

What we can do, however, is if we happen to know a primary and secondary char and we see X with the eq (like FBB) and then 20 minutes later we see Y with an FBB and X has logged out, it becomes pretty clear that something may have happened.

Windemere.

You don't even have to know the connection between X and Y.

But if you see some rare piece of equipment X had at the hands of Y, and X and Y are not in the same guild, it's something already worth reporting.
And if you by chance, let's say via OOC channels happen to know that X and Y are seconds, you can tell it to the Admin and that's perfectly ok.
You can't tell about the relationships to anyone of lower rank, because even Lieges do not know the seconds except of the wizards of their domains.

[Amberlee]

Dear Tapakah..

Basically what you are communicating here is that you make yourself seem as useless as tits on a fish.
What do you mean WE have to produce the evidence?
We, the players can NEVER produce the kind of evidence that YOU the ARCHES can.
We do not have access to IPs et cetra.

[Zorath]

Dear Tapakah..

Basically what you are communicating here is that you make yourself seem as useless as tits on a fish.
What do you mean WE have to produce the evidence?
We, the players can NEVER produce the kind of evidence that YOU the ARCHES can.
We do not have access to IPs et cetra.

Thats not how I understood his note at all.

[Laurel]

IPs, snoops, snooping objects, object logs (attack, death, cash and all the stuff that IS logged), etc. all the stuff that has been used over years, but somehow currently is not available ... or so I understand the responsibility shift to players apparent in many wiz-notes on this forum

worse even - I fail to see the will to understand the player side

once again:
snooping, watching cash-flows, item-flows, stashes (you CAN see where items are if you want to ...), IPs, login times, teams ... that is all PLAYERS' JOB?!?!

wizards have all the tools available but seemingly WANT TO fail to spot what players can easily see without access to any of those features