Genesis Forums

nils wrote:

Arman wrote: I will implement their changes first so the BDA can contrast and compare. I'll get rid of BDA intimidate and put that aid into their dragon attacks. I'll leave the slash attack alone and see how the changes fare.

Suggestion then, how about, in all fairness, you wait to remove intimidate/dishearten until move behind and rescue are considered part of caid OR give us the possibility to rotate tanks.

It's very powerful after all, and one might consider dishearten our equivalent (REALLY POOR substitute), seeing as Calians and Knights do not suffer loss of combat aid for having said abilities.

Something out, something in.

Agreed, its stupid that only the goodieguilds have those sort of utility specials ontop of good tanking and damage -.-

Arman wrote: Or inability to optimise to the best combat race? Or the Union and alcohol consumption?

Please, don't go there. This is an insult.

Draugor wrote: Agreed, its stupid that only the goodieguilds have those sort of utility specials ontop of good tanking and damage -.-

It's not stupid to have said abilities. Not suffering loss of combat aid, however, is.

nils wrote:

Arman wrote: Or inability to optimise to the best combat race? Or the Union and alcohol consumption?

Please, don't go there. This is an insult.

I agree with Nils here.
Don't go there.
Racial imbalance is a completely different issue.
So is the game design of the most broken and OP guild in the game(Which is neutral and not evil).

You don't factor in the size average or the racial choices of players in the guild when balancing it.
This is purely guild vs guild thing.

Kas: My example was purely hypothetical based on a "perfect scenario" where there's enough grinders for everyone and exactly 50% is indoors and 50% is outdoors. As I mentioned, in there real game there's a lot more variables to consider.

However, as Arman pointed out many guilds have places or areas where they are more or less effective. If we leave the racial discussion for another thread, alignment restrictions (coded) are is definitely something that must be considered, since that has a BIG effect on how effective you are at grinding. That probably matters a lot more than indoor / outdoor for BDA will I would imagine. So if a guild can't kill NPCs that are goodies, at all, should they not be twice as powerful against evil NPCs? Or how do you factor that in?

For example both PoTs and Knights have quite severe limitations based on alignment. Scops obviously excel against a certain race. Calians are extremely powerful, but ONLY when in a team. Spellcasters are awesome, unless they're fighting something or someone with lots of magic resistance. It's hardly something unique with guilds that have limitations in what and where they can kill. Would it be so strange if BDA also had strengths and weaknesses? Or why should they specifically be just as powerful no matter where they are or what they kill?

Cherek wrote: For example both PoTs and Knights have quite severe limitations based on alignment. Scops obviously excel against a certain race. Calians are extremely powerful, but ONLY when in a team. Spellcasters are awesome, unless they're fighting something or someone with lots of magic resistance. It's hardly something unique with guilds that have limitations in what and where they can kill. Would it be so strange if BDA also had strengths and weaknesses? Or why should they specifically be just as powerful no matter where they are or what they kill?

Align shouldnt be counted into the pure combataid calculation, thats insane -.-

SCOP does damage against undeads AND evils. Calians with the boosted tanking abilities when in team with other calians, producing crazy fast damage and beeing able to rotate, finding a teammate aint to hard for them if they want it, if we're factoring aligngrinding etc, we should factor that stuff too. And BDA excell at damage, its the only thing they can actually do since they tank like a wet dishcloth, Nils can tank due to beeing a necro, necros are 100% of his tankability.

Draugor wrote:

Cherek wrote: For example both PoTs and Knights have quite severe limitations based on alignment. Scops obviously excel against a certain race. Calians are extremely powerful, but ONLY when in a team. Spellcasters are awesome, unless they're fighting something or someone with lots of magic resistance. It's hardly something unique with guilds that have limitations in what and where they can kill. Would it be so strange if BDA also had strengths and weaknesses? Or why should they specifically be just as powerful no matter where they are or what they kill?

Align shouldnt be counted into the pure combataid calculation, thats insane -.-

SCOP does damage against undeads AND evils. Calians with the boosted tanking abilities when in team with other calians, producing crazy fast damage and beeing able to rotate, finding a teammate aint to hard for them if they want it, if we're factoring aligngrinding etc, we should factor that stuff too. And BDA excell at damage, its the only thing they can actually do since they tank like a wet dishcloth, Nils can tank due to beeing a necro, necros are 100% of his tankability.

All I am saying it why would it be so strange if BDA we're better in some areas and worse in others, just as other guilds are better and worse based on various things? And how can you NOT factor in things like coded align and racial restrictions like PoTs, Scops, Knights and Rangers have, to name a few? Why does that NOT count, but a potential DA restriction does count? A coded restriction is a coded restriction? Why is indoor vs outdoor any different than restrictions based on the race of and or align of what you're fighting? Being slightly worse indoors and slightly better outdoors sounds like a much smaller restriction that being really weak against a certain align / race, or not being able to kill in certain areas _at all_. I think that sounds far more restricted than the proposed DA change.

Arman wrote:Lots of guilds get disadvantages in the name of thematic and roleplay. How many grinding areas do the knights miss out on for alignment restrictions? Or inability to optimise to the best combat race? Or the Union and alcohol consumption?

Anyway. Dragons are part of the dragonarmy damage mix. The guild theme revolves around it, and that isn't going to change. Considering it isn't public knowledge what the current combat aid ratios are, and I don't plan on detailing it or the extent of the changes beyond the vague references I've already provided, you are just going to have to roll with them.

During balance review the AoB team may give some concession to dragon attack damage being outdoor only, but i wouldn't bank on it. Then again they might.

As I have already said - RDA will loose their bleed and autoimpale (to a large degree). Their impale direct damage attack and dragon attack damage will both noticeably increase.

I will implement their changes first so the BDA can contrast and compare. I'll get rid of BDA intimidate and put that aid into their dragon attacks. I'll leave the slash attack alone and see how the changes fare.

Ahem, Knights can be dwarfs, which means STR and CON as good as goblins, and great DIS, which I recall is also great for knights.
SU's inability to consume alcohol, to my best knowledge, is well compensated by their insane damage output.

SU can drink alcohol now without penalty,just has to be done a certain way. It was coded in when the runies were made nondull for a time.

Welcome to the death of evil guilds in Genesis.
Hope the people in charge are proud.