Re: Quickness
Posted: 14 Apr 2018 23:22
I agree about the layman power thing but it is quite normal to want for yourself that fresh, juicy and green grass you can see on the other side of the road.
If layman guilds can have x amount of combat aid, does it matter how they get it? Whether it is stat boost, quickness, direct damage, poison/bleeds damage, evades, or heals? x combat aid is x combat aid?Greneth wrote:In my opinion no layman should have it, but I'm a bit biased because I think the game keeps moving guilds towards bigger, better, more. I think things need to be scaled back, we saw how bad it was overall for the game when we increased Titles, then changed stats, then added bigger mobs. Now we've got ridiculously sized people that run scripts all day.Arman wrote:I am not clear from some of the comments on whether people have issues with the power of the quickness spell, or that it only is accessible at this point by one layman guild.
To me that is important to clarify. Will accessibility to such a spell through more layman guilds offering it resolve the perceived game imbalance, or will that essentially result in players only gravitating towards layman guilds with quickness benefits because the spell is perceived as overly beneficial?
It use to be no one really gave a shit about things like this, when the Hero/Titan MM was farming Mithas Trolls it was more of a joke then people getting seriously angry. Why? Because the game was more focused on roleplay back then. But everytime we keep adding more more more, bigger, more more more. And everytime it shifts the attitudes just a tiny bit more towards this min/max crap. If that's the direction you want to take the game then remove all quests and just let people grind/bot to their hearts content. Set every guild/skill to the same damage and same resistances then just change the descriptions of the attacks that the players see.
Haste is a very powerful tool that should be reserved for Occupational Guilds, Special Items and Imbuements. Should you add more guilds with haste the players will just move to those guilds, depending on how easy they are to join. And should those guilds not measure up to EW standards you will most definitely hear about it from certain players. Get rid of the haste in laymans now while you still have the option and save yourself a headache.
Balancing stuff can be easy to do. You just remove features from the game that are difficult to balance, or just make changes to align with a logical and simple set of principles that makes sense from someone who administers the game but doesn't play it.Alisa wrote: NOW WTF IS AOB TALKING ABOUT GUILD SECRETS ON A PUBLIC FORUM?
Isn't it actually a genesis rule, that you're not allowed to public spread guild secrets? I'd like a complete list of MM spells soon, so i know what to deal with if i get on their bad side again.
Arman wrote:Balancing stuff can be easy to do. You just remove features from the game that are difficult to balance, or just make changes to align with a logical and simple set of principles that makes sense from someone who administers the game but doesn't play it.Alisa wrote: NOW WTF IS AOB TALKING ABOUT GUILD SECRETS ON A PUBLIC FORUM?
Isn't it actually a genesis rule, that you're not allowed to public spread guild secrets? I'd like a complete list of MM spells soon, so i know what to deal with if i get on their bad side again.
I have never seen that approach result in anything other than a massive player outcry.
I can make changes to quickness - or layman magic guilds or the magic system generally - based on what I think. But if I do make such changes, I want to make sure they make sense to the player base... which means talking through possible issues with them first. I'll avoid giving away guild secrets, and I don't think I have... I am pretty sure EW abilities have been commented on publicly elsewhere in the forums, however if you feel I have let me know and i'll try and reword in a more general fashion.
I have checked those items . And I get why quickness is restricted for items... how much free untaxed combat aid should items give? (another murky balance question).Draugor wrote:Arman wrote:Balancing stuff can be easy to do. You just remove features from the game that are difficult to balance, or just make changes to align with a logical and simple set of principles that makes sense from someone who administers the game but doesn't play it.Alisa wrote: NOW WTF IS AOB TALKING ABOUT GUILD SECRETS ON A PUBLIC FORUM?
Isn't it actually a genesis rule, that you're not allowed to public spread guild secrets? I'd like a complete list of MM spells soon, so i know what to deal with if i get on their bad side again.
I have never seen that approach result in anything other than a massive player outcry.
I can make changes to quickness - or layman magic guilds or the magic system generally - based on what I think. But if I do make such changes, I want to make sure they make sense to the player base... which means talking through possible issues with them first. I'll avoid giving away guild secrets, and I don't think I have... I am pretty sure EW abilities have been commented on publicly elsewhere in the forums, however if you feel I have let me know and i'll try and reword in a more general fashion.
The issue is partly the lack of availability and the amount of speed that a layman spell gives compared to every speed item in the game outside of imbues Please go test this, fur robe, GG's etc compared to 1 spell. A layman spell. And the fact that there has been no equal boost for people that didnt want to suck up to people and that might have had connections to undeadguilds. The lack of actual balance as such is rather big tbh.
If you place two equal sized opponents vs eachother for testing guild balance, that will help you to measure and calibrate/balance the guilds. This is symmetrical balancing if both guilds are set up to be of equal power, so yes, I would say it's an act of balance.Chanele wrote:Alot of envy in this thread..
Keep in mind that a handful of loudmouths does not speak for the whole community.
I understand that balance is hard but to get somewhat closed you need to add all parameters. Speed being one of them but there are more, race restrictions (DA vs Knights ex.), item restrictions etc. The previous AoB (P) did not include these factors and explained he compared guilds by putting two equal sized players against eachother for x number of times....
Thats not balance.
I did assume that AoB knew the mechanics. Your questions make a lot more sense to me, knowing that there are uncertainties.Arman wrote: Quickness abilities are becoming more accessible. With availability, one aspect of balance gets resolved. I guess at that point we'll have a better idea of whether it provides too much of a benefit for a layman guild.
I do get your concerns... I've asked the same questions. I haven't got a satisfactory answer, however myself and the balance team are working at unpicking the mechanics behind it all. At some point we'll feel confident around whether the formulas currently in place make sense.
*Here comes Toto pulling back the curtains revealing the great and powerful Wizard of Oz* The mystery of how things work in Genesis is difficult even for the admin to get a grip on sometimes. Unfortunately for some things there is no manual about 'how things work'. When I became AoB I was hoping there was such a document of great enlightenment, but there isn't. So what that means is a lot of interrogation of the code, and interrogation of those involved in making the code when they make an appearance in the realm... and trying to make sense of it all.
Often the act of 'balancing' something has been just making sure it is consistent with how it has been done in the past. The code is old, and has been around for many generations of admin... so bare with us. Often what seems as inaction is often the current generation of admin trying to reverse engineer how things work.
Remember when you, me (DA), Ruben (DA) and Guinevere (DO) were the council of EW?Amberlee wrote:About quickness and haste spells.
As I see it, if one layman guild has it then everyone should have equal chance to be a part of it.
By having the guild open to join for all alignments OR having several guilds with it.
I can only agree with you on that, but why bring it up here?Amberlee wrote:I have nothing against you personally.
[...]Staying for years without end in a guild may be good or it may be bad.
One thing's for sure.
When the leadership remains the same for over a decade, almost without any changes, it's a bad thing.