Genesis Forums

As Arman has stated, we have discovered a bug in Genesis that has persisted for more than 10 years. The bug has resulted in guild specials (melee damage, spell damage, spell heal, etc.) being nearly 3x (270%) more powerful than the amount of guild tax they cost for combat-aid provided. Our efforts to balance the game will be thwarted for as long as we choose to ignore this newly-discovered (huge!) issue.

Many ideas have been tossed about, but the simplest is to simply rip the bandaid off, feel the pain, and move forward knowing we are now in "correct balance". If we did this, fixing the simple formula that controls special power, it would be a radical nerf to the entire game's guild specials. The nerf would mean that all specials in all guilds would be reduced to 37% of their current (incorrect) power levels.

Please consider the implications, and tell us what you think you would do if we gave this nerf a try. Feel free to speculate on how such a change would impact different aspects of standard gameplay: grinding, level progression at different sizes, gear-hunting, pvp, etc.

We'll be reading.

Thanks,
G.

I voted for the global "nerf".

I have at times disagreed a bit with the direction of the game. Over time I think we are putting more and more power into the game, and people constantly have to switch guilds to keep up with the global arms-and-guild-race. Older guilds are left behind, unable to keep up. I know there are other factors in this, but lets get this global nerf and we'll all be equal('er).

I think people (the Legends and Myths especially) have been growing too strong and it takes away some of the fun and challenge of the game. One way to make the game more challenging again is to cut us all a bit back. This will also hopefully encourage more teaming and thus more roleplaying.

I know the larger players team a lot to be able to gather their enormous amounts of experience to progress. So now their specials will have to hit a few more times to defeat the same opponents. It's not the end of the world!

Thanks.

1) It seems that players who have gotten HUGE with their increased abilities would be forever ahead of the rest of us.
2) It seems the game would be less fun.

As a result, I can't be sure I'd keep playing. It just sounds... frustrating.

Whatever happens you are all stuck with me anyways for many many years

I think that we should nerf and I agree that we have got to a point where people gets more and more powerful and new grinding areas are created to keep up which makes people grow even faster. The game can't keep up. The nerf will also make the so called "soft-cap" more noticable.

And I don't think that just cause some people will feel that they loose power and won't have it as easy to grow as the huge players is a good enough reason to not do it. Those people will still be able to grown with the same relative speed in comparison to those huge players. But a nerf of players combat xp also would fit right in.

Right now a tank or healer has hardly any place in the game, three damage makers today don't need a tank, they kill so fast that they don't need to sacrifice speed for a tank. So I think that with the nerf tankers and healers will be more important which will bring more balance to teams and the game as whole.

Personally I think the game should adapt and develop to allow things to stay as they are its hasn't really grown itself in the last 25 years- probably more work than a simple nerf obviously- but the boredom induced by dropping skills by 2/3 would make things tedious - especially solo (its bad enough already for a Calian)- the big players could not be caught and they could equally progress any further.

There are skills in the game which aid speed of killing which are not considered a CAID based skill, I am not sure its fair to not consider these either, as these would become mega skills in comparison (they already are a considerable advantage to anyone who has access)


as for if it would stop me playing ? probably not but if I am quest capped and effectively exp capped then I would be scratching around for something new to do.. So we will see I guess

It is not an easy answer to nerf or not to nerf. More important are details. If specials will be nerfed, there will be anything added to compensate it? Lets look at example:
Two champions mercenaries in team kill orcs, vampires and shades in Kryptgarden in Faerun. Now they both needs let say 40 min to make a one progress level. After the nerf they will have to go and kill there probably in 4 person team. And this bigger team will be able to kill the same amount of orcs in the same time as 2 persons before the nerf. But the exp every of this bigger team will get will be significantly lower. So the global exp they will be able to get in lets say 4h will be much lower.

And in my opinion if there will not be no compensation, the general result can some players will leave the Gen.

How can it be compensate? I see two options:
1. Increase team bonus - so bigger teams will have the bonus big enough to compensate bigger number of players that has to share the exp gained by team. But this proposal has one disadvantage - solo players will be still nerfed. And there are quite a lot of players who love to solo play. And we have to respect it

2. Increase global exp for killed mobs. This solution should compensate the nerf and need of bigger teams or longer fight to kill the mob.

I have voted for option 2, since I don't know how the nerf will be implemented. If the balance of the guild after the nerf will be as it should be? If the issue of white hits is properly put into balance equation? Especially white hits for caster guilds?

So can I create multiple accounts and win this on my own? (Sorry, just curious/semi-worried/wondering)

We had a MAJOR nerf before when hitpoint formula was altered and people got less hp for their CON.
For a few days it SUCKED until you got used to it.

I agree, if specials were lowered 37% it would be a PAIN. Until you got used to it.
Opps you could beat, would now be unbeatable etc etc
And this is a BAD feeling for anyone playing the game. Extremely bad.
Until you got used to it. If you stayed until then ofc.

But I suppose there is a good reason to discuss this 'bug' and to think over what is best for the game in long terms.
The first question has (imo) to be if anything has to be done at all?
If it worked fine for such a long time, why change it?

I also assume that this bug affects every guild in the game with combat aiding specials.
The balance of guildspecials and attacks and caid etc etc is most likely done with this bug included.
There are a lot of guilds that no one touched codewise for many years, but the rest are recoded balanced and thought over. What will happen with all this work and balance issues, if such a major nerf is done?
Do we have the manpower to redo balance issues of them all?

Personally I would like to see the piece of code that allowed this to happen.
(Im sooo curious)
Or was it an intended piece of code by someone with good intention, who just forgot to add a note about it?

Tommo wrote: "There are skills in the game which aid speed of killing which are not considered a CAID based skill"

I play PAX a lot. This fantastic skill would not be affected by a nerf on damage. How many more of those skills (not affected, but clearly a gain in combat) are there, and would some guilds benefit a lot, compared to those where the nerf strikes hard?

There has also been talk and whispers about nerfing old players who has grown and gained from this bug.
If there is need for that, I wish and hope more than just this bug is considered.
I was a dwarf from 1992 who suffered for many many years with the DEX issue in combat.
I think all goblins, elves, hobbits should be nerfed HARD and dwarves should have their xp raised instead, by a not so small quantity. :p

I voted for the nerf. I'm wondering if SU is effected by this bug though? They haven't been recoded, yet their fling is extremely powerful.