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I say exp for your original question, but if we are looking to promote PvP just changing the penalities I dont feel would do much overall. It may play a part but there are much better ways through stat caps, racial balance, changing the leveling curve and PvP kill bonuses. Take the focus away from grinding, stats and unlimited growth and the rest will follow.

Death is a hard % combat experience penalty followed by a recovery period and is the same for every death, no matter how calculated or careless.

Gear loss is a wildcard that depends on what your character is carrying that day and how/where the death occurred.

It's a good mix.

Oh and which is worse?

The one I can't control!

sylphan wrote: ↑

01 Jul 2020 21:59

1. So you're not interested in whether players do think death via PVP is too harsh? Rather, because you've already decided that it is, you just want to know which aspect players would prefer to have less harsh?

2. If I've got it wrong, and you have not already decided PVP death is too harsh, I don't understand why you didn't add choices like "it's fine how it is" and "making it harsher would be good for the game."

3. If I've got it right, why bother asking players which aspect they want less harsh when you're not asking the more fundamental question of whether they want a change on this point at all?

Maybe this sounds sharp or critical or something. I don't mean it to. I'm just perplexed about the point of the whole thing, and I'm trying to understand.

I haven't decided on anything. I've been _thinking_ about a lower PVP death penalty and/or possible ways for players to have some sort of protection, or partial protection, from death (PVE and/or PVP). I figured I would just do a quick poll to get an idea what people feel is the worst aspect of dying, without going into too much detail, because then it tends to turn into a big discussion... But... that happened anyway because I provided too little information

All I wanted to get an idea of was if it's the XP penalty or the EQ loss (assuming you can't recover the corpse) that is the worst aspect of dying. The poll is only comparing the two penalties against each other, nothing else. This isn't a poll about _if_ we should change the death penalty, and I don't really think that needs to be discussed before I've presented a thought-through idea for it. If I come up with something I like, I will be sure to let you players know and also let you share your thoughts on it.

Greneth wrote: ↑

01 Jul 2020 23:21

I say exp for your original question, but if we are looking to promote PvP just changing the penalities I dont feel would do much overall. It may play a part but there are much better ways through stat caps, racial balance, changing the leveling curve and PvP kill bonuses. Take the focus away from grinding, stats and unlimited growth and the rest will follow.

Well no, only changing the death penalty for PVP won't do much on its own. If we do that it would also be part of a bigger change to address some of the things you mention as well.

During the infamous foreversave era, losing equipment would have felt far worse than death considering the cost of custom imbueing basically all armour locations. Since everything now breaks this has shifted dramatically towards death becoming far worse than equipment loss.

For a small player it might be the other way around, admittedly. And be weary of arbitrarily rewarding pvp wins, as it is easily abused.

I hear people whining about stat caps as a fix-all solution to all our problems. I'd be inclined to agree if there was an end game and constant rollouts of new content to keep the game interesting. Do we have an end game? Who's ready to create, code, balance and roll out new areas every other month?

Thought so.

Stat cap will lead to players leaving (the fact that some people with sore sphincters might find that fact advantageous is not lost on me).


That said - the penalty system we have now sure as shit ain't broke. Don't fix it! There are more pressing matters that need to be adressed.

If we make death hurt even less than it does now, and right now it does not hurt a whole lot, it gives even LESS accountability for people.
Make it hurt more is a bit dodgy since some biguns might really try to take advantage of that, but would make it mean more.
Right now escaping a PvP death is so fucking easy it's actually insanely hard to kill someone unless they are completely AFK.
Don't try to fix something that isn't broke, Cherek.

Amberlee/Nils: There's never going to be concensus about what needs to be fixed, what's important to fix, and how things should be fixed. This thread was just meant to compare XP loss and EQ loss. Let's leave the rest for another time. Like I said, if we plan to do any actual changes we'll give you a chance to provide feedback on the idea. But, please keep an open mind, right now you're negative about a possible change without knowing what the change might be. Just because something isn't horribly broken doesn't mean it can't become _better_.

Perhaps change death penalty in PvP, so that if you get pkilled you lose your 1/5 exp temporarily and it gets restored over a period of time, without the need to grind your way back up?

Rincon wrote: ↑

02 Jul 2020 17:13

Perhaps change death penalty in PvP, so that if you get pkilled you lose your 1/5 exp temporarily and it gets restored over a period of time, without the need to grind your way back up?

That's one way of making PVP penalty hurt less, absolutely. However, a problem could be that it might encourage players NOT to play for a time? Maybe we risk losing people to other games while waiting for their death recovery here?

just let it recover over time played (not idle)...
Xp gained in that time is going 75% to the pvp recovery and 25% to xp on top of the level before..
Or something like that.
Then people can still see a reason to go grind.