Genesis Forums

I get the idea but, an immediate concern is: Do we really need more newbies with pick pocket skill, running around stealing from other newbies? I think that is a problem we have as it is, and having a bunch of stealthy thieving newbies (many with little knowledge of our rules) loose in Sparkle sounds.... risky? And if it does not provide sneak, hide and pick pocket, it's kind of a bad introduction to stealh guilds in Genesis... feels like a catch-22 situation...

Also, the nature of such guilds thematically makes it a bit weird to advertise. Carlsan can't exactly say "Oh, and if you wanna be a thief, go join the thief school. You can find it e;e;n; from the basket in Kabal. Take the ship from pier 11". Yes, I am exaggerating and I know that wasn't exactly how you meant, but thieves, assassins, and those kind of guilds, are supposed to be covert and secretive by nature... while newbie guilds tend to have to be advertised and their location and abilities very well-known, so I am not I am not sure it is a good fit for a newbie guild thematically?

The only thing I could think of would perhaps be some sort of hunter/ranger type of guild, still stealthy, can dodge damage (like you said), can sneak up on enemies to start a fight or something, but not focused on stealing from or murdering other players.

But even if we find a good theme and skillset for it, I am still not convinced. I think newbies are better off meeting other people, talking to other people, etc. Sneaking around without being seen, and likely be distrusted by older players (especially if we include pick picket skill) is maybe not the best way to learn Genesis?

For this kind of guild I think it's perfectly fine, actually preferable, if you discover it a bit later in the game, when you know a bit more, and know a bit more about who you character is going to be.

The problem is that this "a bit later" comes at the point when those guilds become super niche.

Also, Tricksters do not offer any pickpocketing (they're pranksters, not thieves) so there's no worry about that. I think that their location (approximate at least) should be advertised a bit more. Surely there's a way to convey to the newbies that if stealth is their chosen domain they should perhaps explore Bree a bit more thoroughly.

Cherek wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2021 18:19

I get the idea but, an immediate concern is: Do we really need more newbies with pick pocket skill, running around stealing from other newbies?

Lights out, game over. Cherek said what we're all thinking. Go home folks, nothing to see here.

Zhar wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2021 02:46

The problem is that this "a bit later" comes at the point when those guilds become super niche.

Also, Tricksters do not offer any pickpocketing (they're pranksters, not thieves) so there's no worry about that. I think that their location (approximate at least) should be advertised a bit more. Surely there's a way to convey to the newbies that if stealth is their chosen domain they should perhaps explore Bree a bit more thoroughly.

Tricksters have been on the borderline of being closed or converted to a craft guild. I don't think they'd be a guild we'd promote to new players. They are old and pretty rubbishy in my mind... I remember when the Hin Warriors layman guild was closed, with all the spellcasting elements moving to the Heralds and the junky abilities moved to the Tricksters.

I don't mind the idea of a stealth-style layman guild for new players. But i'd prefer it to be something rangery rather than thiefy, like a layman hunter or tracker guild with some fun abilities associated with that style of play.

Well, we could definitely use a ranger-like layman. There are Archers but they're fairly limiting in terms of who can join them.

I've had this idea of beast-masters where you're a ranger and have your companion animal with you (similar to Maligant's doggos) that can track and lend a hand in combat by applying bleeds, tripping down your opponent etc.

Unfortunately I'm not skilled enough to implement such a thing and I'm not sure people would want that.

Noone said the guild has to have pick-pocket at all, was just a suggestion. I disagree stealth is about stealing, 3/4 OCC Stealth guilds don't have pickpocket as far as I know, or at least the theme is not about stealing if they do have it. You focus on thieves and tricksters, I focus more on Archers, Rangers, Kenders, (well, Fire Knives too, but not sure I can tell you much there).

However the original idea was not to add a layman guild but to create something for newbies to promote stealth guilds as well. Give these guilds a fair shot in promotion as well.

Sidenote:

Zhar wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2021 11:40

Unfortunately I'm not skilled enough to implement such a thing and I'm not sure people would want that.

I've heard this idea a while ago and I must say it sounds very interesting! I sure would want such guild. Not sure it's where the focus should be though (or well, where I think it should be).

On one hand, stealth is the most difficult thing for newbies to learn. On the other, they shouldn't have a target on their backs, It would be odd for a starter thief guild to not have all traditional thief skills. A "hunter" guild with bow/knife that would hunt animals for money would be cool though any sneaking makes a lot of us suspicious.

EDIT: for clarity, I have no idea what my hands were trying to do

Zhar wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2021 11:40

Well, we could definitely use a ranger-like layman. There are Archers but they're fairly limiting in terms of who can join them.

I've had this idea of beast-masters where you're a ranger and have your companion animal with you (similar to Maligant's doggos) that can track and lend a hand in combat by applying bleeds, tripping down your opponent etc.

Unfortunately I'm not skilled enough to implement such a thing and I'm not sure people would want that.

I think that sort of thing would be nice. It's a shame Carnak never completed the Beastmaster layman... it really fits this description.