The rise of the Nameless Horror!

[Cherek]

When we create a new occupational guild, it is often the same story.

We've seen it quite recently. A new, strong guild emerges and utterly failed. I don't know why, but what could be a new, cool guild is largely considered a flop by most all available metrics.

Why would Khiraa be any different? Because it has not only a base in long-existing lore but dedicated fans who would work hard to make it a success. I'm all for new, cool guilds, but (and I know you will correct me if I am wrong) guilds that come out lately without the fanfare or consultation of the masses seem to be met with lackluster results.

Well, "utterly failed", might be a stretch, and there are probably several reasons to why things didn't go like it usually does when we open a guild. The secretive nature is probably one reason. But sure, it surprised me too a little. Even though I think it was mainly due to other reasons, the lukewarm reception might also be an indication that we already have too many occupational guilds...

I don't think Khiraa will have the same issue, I think it'll be like when Ogres, AA or SoHM/WoHS (re-)opened. People flock at first, then things settle down, and we have "one more mouth to feed" in the players/guilds mathematics (as I described above). Unfortunately I think by opening a new guild... even if it's a big success, and good short term... it's not ncecessirly good for the game long term.

[Drazson]

So FK closing and Khiraa reopening by xmas or..?

[Thalric]

To be honest, we've been quite creative when it comes to occupational guilds..

A new run of the mill with Vampires is being creative?

If you count all the current 22 options, yes I think we've been quite creative. There are a lot of unique concepts to choose from. As for Nerull's in-progress vampire guild, maybe you should wait to try it out until you deem it uncreative!

I didn't mean that the guild itself was uncreative...
I meant that making yet another vampire guild... #4 or #5 now?, is not showing a lot of creativity in terms of new options.

I also do hope that the choice of people to begin the new guild is based on activity.
This also being secretive, I imagine, we don't want another FK opening.

[Nerull]

I believe it's nr #3, for the Vampires.

Though, the former vamps ran like traditional guild concepts, or coven-like, with initial selected individuals, recruitment processes etc.

The new one won't, and will operate in a way that does'nt...exist in Genesis yet.

Regarding FK: The intended design was for it to be an option, but a hard one - you couldn't just join and get all the juices immediately like AA or DA, but would rather equire effort. At release, many applied, and many failed, but some was given their chance, and some failed during apprenticeship, and a few managed to join the brotherhood. But, that's just the start...

Currently, its perhaps the most secretive guild in the game that people know little or nothing about, and it did work out as it was designed to do.

[Zhar]

Just to clarify, you don't get all the "juices" immediately in DAs, KoS or PoT. All of those guilds require some serious effort and time investment to get to reasonable levels of effectiveness and unlocking all the perks.

[Rache]

Regarding FK: The intended design was for it to be an option, but a hard one - you couldn't just join and get all the juices immediately like AA or DA, but would rather equire effort. At release, many applied, and many failed, but some was given their chance, and some failed during apprenticeship, and a few managed to join the brotherhood. But, that's just the start...

Currently, its perhaps the most secretive guild in the game that people know little or nothing about, and it did work out as it was designed to do.

For one reason or another, something happened and the experiment produced some interesting results. But isn't this exactly the issue that Cherek has with guilds? Too many with too few members?

Super niche guilds will lead to very empty guildhalls and we have these conversations when valid ideas that are supported by the playerbase come up but are invariably shot down.

[Nerull]

Just to clarify, you don't get all the "juices" immediately in DAs, KoS or PoT. All of those guilds require some serious effort and time investment to get to reasonable levels of effectiveness and unlocking all the perks.

Sure, it was not ment to be taken completely literary. Progression in MM, PoT, EC etc differs a lot from KoS, DA, AA etc.

Some guilds you can maybe max out within a month or two - others take years, even decades.

[Cherek]

It takes _decades_ to max out in some guilds? Which guilds are those? Let me know and I'll move them to the top of the "to be closed"-list

No, I don't have such a list. So don't worry. But I really do not think it should take decades to max out anything in Genesis. Not even years.

[Nerull]

Regarding FK: The intended design was for it to be an option, but a hard one - you couldn't just join and get all the juices immediately like AA or DA, but would rather equire effort. At release, many applied, and many failed, but some was given their chance, and some failed during apprenticeship, and a few managed to join the brotherhood. But, that's just the start...

Currently, its perhaps the most secretive guild in the game that people know little or nothing about, and it did work out as it was designed to do.

For one reason or another, something happened and the experiment produced some interesting results. But isn't this exactly the issue that Cherek has with guilds? Too many with too few members?

Super niche guilds will lead to very empty guildhalls and we have these conversations when valid ideas that are supported by the playerbase come up but are invariably shot down.

Yes, that is what data suggests. Today, and this has been true for years and years, free to join guilds where people don't need to "put in work" or risk repercusions for failures etc, are by far the most popular ones, especially since they are potent enough.

We could close all the niche guilds, and membership of mundane free to jon guilds would skyrocket (being the only alternatives), but...probably at the expense of immersion / depth.

The average players in niche-guilds (online) whenever I've checked it, would be between 1-3 players each. The entire goodie population and evil population would be around 10 players each, while all the rest in neutral free to join guilds. FK did not perform worse than MM or other niche guild in this regard, and this is what would be expected according to the data.

The bulk of the players are Sohms or Mercs, paired often with Warlock or Blademasters as secondary guild selection.

Want to be just the average guy? Select the mundane options. Else, try out for some of the niche guilds, to become someone/something special.

[Redblade]

It takes _decades_ to max out in some guilds? Which guilds are those? Let me know and I'll move them to the top of the "to be closed"-list

No, I don't have such a list. So don't worry. But I really do not think it should take decades to max out anything in Genesis. Not even years.

Guilds where your special ability's power is directly proportional to your guild xp? Guilds where you lose your special ability's power over time unless you restore it on regular basis? yeah, that kind of guilds. I suggest moving them to the top of the "to be recoded"-list. And then moving the list to the top of "to do"-list. Looking forward to it