Balances, or whatever

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Zhar
Wizard
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Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: Balances, or whatever

Post by Zhar » 01 Apr 2021 16:31

Mim wrote:
01 Apr 2021 12:43
Zhar wrote:
01 Apr 2021 11:14
I don't think idling in pub gives you bonus qxp. Would be silly.
Have you tried?
Now I will have to try to see for myself. In any case it shouldn't be like that as it would be totally unfair to the people who did the quests before such a thing was introduced.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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OgreToyBoy
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Re: Balances, or whatever

Post by OgreToyBoy » 01 Apr 2021 18:43

What about the 'new' bank that actually give you interest. Remnants of a lost age I guess, I made over 8000 platinum over the years I was away.

Nerull
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Joined: 05 Jul 2014 23:24

Re: Balances, or whatever

Post by Nerull » 01 Apr 2021 22:18

Mim wrote:
01 Apr 2021 09:10
Nerull wrote:
31 Mar 2021 01:37
Remember, evil only have AA and DA's as evil figther melee options, vs Calians, Neidars, Rangers, Knights (Kenders and Rangers are probably rogues),
This brings back memories.

http://www.oocities.org/timessquare/labyrinth/4685/

For us that remember the old Alliance of Elnoven, the new alliance by the forces of good feels like those 20 years passed by very quickly.
Elnoven was for those who do not remember a town hidden behind the mountains in northern Terel.
There used to be a tunnel there with a winged lion and behind that was the town.
Pretty useless with nothing of intrest except perhaps for the old Mystic guild.

EDIT: If you click on the link above and then click on the button DEATHS you will have some cool and fun reading.


PS I think qxp and speed should be excluded from the Sparkle pub factor.
Idling 3 hours before finishing wednesday and saturdays quest reciving 5x xp every time feels wrong.
And 'extremely rapid' speed every saturday for such a small quest is not fine.
The dude who topped last weeks Light Weight Rankings apparently did so by finishing Zodiac after a 3hrs idle in the pub.
I recall those days. :) Fun stuff

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Mim
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Re: Balances, or whatever

Post by Mim » 04 Apr 2021 10:08

Arman wrote:
25 Mar 2021 07:42

Having said that I'll try and explain.

Throwing out some theoretical combat aid numbers... the combat system was designed so that a player would get 100 combat aid in white damage (normal hits), up to 100 combat aid from their occupational guild through specials (defensive or offensive benefit) and 50 combat aid from their layman guild.

Now the formula for special _attacks_ (so, we are talking about one aspect of specials) was wrong. So 1 combat aid of white damage or 1 combat aid of a defensive special wasn't the same as 1 combat aid applied to special attacks. And the difference was more exponential than linear the more combat aid you had in special attacks.

So what this meant was those melee guilds more focused on offensive had more REAL combat aid than those that had more of a focus on defensive abilities. Those that had no special attacks being the most disadvantaged (in theory... not necessarily in practice due to other factors). And I think players realised there was something wrong... there was a clear power pecking order of melee guilds.
How does time affect the formula?
If the dmg is the same, but the cool down time of one special is way longer than for someone else?

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Dhez
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Re: Balances, or whatever

Post by Dhez » 04 Apr 2021 10:12

Mim wrote:
04 Apr 2021 10:08
Arman wrote:
25 Mar 2021 07:42

Having said that I'll try and explain.

Throwing out some theoretical combat aid numbers... the combat system was designed so that a player would get 100 combat aid in white damage (normal hits), up to 100 combat aid from their occupational guild through specials (defensive or offensive benefit) and 50 combat aid from their layman guild.

Now the formula for special _attacks_ (so, we are talking about one aspect of specials) was wrong. So 1 combat aid of white damage or 1 combat aid of a defensive special wasn't the same as 1 combat aid applied to special attacks. And the difference was more exponential than linear the more combat aid you had in special attacks.

So what this meant was those melee guilds more focused on offensive had more REAL combat aid than those that had more of a focus on defensive abilities. Those that had no special attacks being the most disadvantaged (in theory... not necessarily in practice due to other factors). And I think players realised there was something wrong... there was a clear power pecking order of melee guilds.
How does time affect the formula?
If the dmg is the same, but the cool down time of one special is way longer than for someone else?
I'm going to guess it's a matter of how the damage is spread: one big hit every 15 seconds or three small ones every 5.
You see a mousetrap. I see free cheese and a challenge.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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Zhar
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Re: Balances, or whatever

Post by Zhar » 04 Apr 2021 10:43

Dhez wrote:
04 Apr 2021 10:12
I'm going to guess it's a matter of how the damage is spread: one big hit every 15 seconds or three small ones every 5.
Pretty much. You either have more burst damage (backstab) or more sustained damage (mattack).
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Areficent
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Re: Balances, or whatever

Post by Areficent » 05 Apr 2021 03:19

tor wrote:
31 Mar 2021 14:53
"I really hope you did not actually use this as a reason for your alliance and agression against the DA's."

Wow, even Cherek is using their narrative :D

No, the Alliance was created in response to member guilds being attacked/killed.
It’s really sad seeing the loudest players being the ones who get the most support from the people running the game :)

The treaty has been in the planning even before you became Thane, Tor. We just had bigger fish to fry at the time. (Saying that just to give some context to how long it’s been discussed.)

But sure, we tested the changes throughly, came to the conclusion we are winning, then had 5+ meetings, exchanged 20+ mails between 5 to 7 people, wrote three drafts of a Treaty document, designed ascii art for a poster, had that approved by everyone, had meetings with our guild members and then announced the Treaty.... ALL in only 4 days! Not to mention we all had to go to work, sleep, eat and have social lives outside of Genesis too in those four days. Sounds doable! /s

Sarcasm aside, you guys do realize we all play this game for fun, right? No one from the Treaty has the time to "chase DAs all day" as most people- and disappointingly, some wizards, too- seem to think. We (leaders, at least) acknowledge that this is a game and meant to be fun for everyone involved. If someone is being "hunted down", it's not going to be just because we felt like it. For clarity:

The Treaty is defensive. We have very strict rules of engagement that can and will result in people being punished within their guilds if they choose to break them. One of our rules is against open combat with people from guilds you are not at war with by default. Meaning, a Ranger is NOT allowed to chase after DAs in Krynn, and is only meant to *warn* them in Middle-Earth- unless provoked/attacked first/ignored - but that was the case before the Treaty anyway.

The only thing this Treaty does is it ensures protection and assistance when teamed- specifically in guild-protected areas.

Hope that helps. Rest assured, we aren't planning any "Bloody Sundays" for balance changes. ;)

Happy Monday!

Chanele
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Re: Balances, or whatever

Post by Chanele » 05 Apr 2021 09:32

wall of text, Happy Bloody monday!
EEEKS!

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Mim
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Re: Balances, or whatever

Post by Mim » 05 Apr 2021 10:12

Zhar wrote:
04 Apr 2021 10:43
Dhez wrote:
04 Apr 2021 10:12
I'm going to guess it's a matter of how the damage is spread: one big hit every 15 seconds or three small ones every 5.
Pretty much. You either have more burst damage (backstab) or more sustained damage (mattack).
I-->-->-->-->-->-->--> = X amount damage after Y seconds

I------>------>------> = X amount damage after Y seconds

Yes, this looks like a reasonable way to look at simple attack specials.
The - added together symbolizes the amount of damage at the strike > moment.
X damage in both scenarios after Y seconds. Not exactly ofc, but a somewhat similar output.
Just like you guys suggested in your quoted posts.

How does the graph look for a special like old 'charge'?
When Gladiators opened that was a special that initiated a fight. There was no second charge in the fight.
Neither did it work if the gladiator was attacked.

--->----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In this graph, should one add all the - into the one and only > ?
Perhaps with a 2x factor to compensate if the gladiator is attacked and can not use his charge at all?
Obviously not. But should that kind of special be compared to one cycle of one of the above specials, and if yes, which one?

---> looks like a bad special. Should there be some factor like 2x 3x 5x 10x for that type of special?

Like
-->
-->>
-->>>
-->>>>>
-->>>>>>>>>>

What is reasonable?

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Zhar
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Re: Balances, or whatever

Post by Zhar » 05 Apr 2021 13:03

You can't really extrapolate this to the old specials. In the olden days each special had its own code and did its own thing. Once the melee specials were standardized they're all using the same code. Basically, you're just configuring the special by providing initial values like caid, prep time, cooldown time etc. and the global special system does all the calculations. At least that's the gist of it.

Then it's all up to the player preference when choosing guilds. Do you want more stable damage output or more volatile burst damage? Different specials are better suited for different encounters I think. For most of PvE it doesn't really matter but I think for PvP more burst is preferable as it's harder to predict and can swing the fight more than constant damage (it's also high risk - high reward kind of deal because missing one big special is pretty bad for you whereas missing one of many smaller ones is not a big deal).
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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