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Re: Autohunt/flee
Posted: 30 May 2021 16:24
by Zar
Mim wrote: ↑30 May 2021 09:21
There has to be some smartness when looking at such a matter.
Im no authority, but if someone has a trigger for boarding or disembarking, and I assume many many do, this would not be a matter even if this occurs during a pfight.
If said trigger also initiate a run to Hobiton from Harlond
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Harlond_(Gondor)
I assume you would not get away with it, even if you try to tell the world you wanted to buy the fine whiskey or play Go in the Hobiton pub, instead if having a fight outside Minas Tirith.
May we define rules the way that will avoid convinient interpretation? Especially when goblins are involved.
Re: Autohunt/flee
Posted: 30 May 2021 19:28
by Fairlight
But! Are they rules, or just mere guidelines ? With all the incidents as of late, one can only too well understand the confusion that arises.
Re: Autohunt/flee
Posted: 30 May 2021 22:10
by Saimon
I would like to ask another question. How far you need to run manualy from the pvp fight, before you can type autopath/speedwalk?
Re: Autohunt/flee
Posted: 31 May 2021 01:00
by Mim
Saimon wrote: ↑30 May 2021 22:10
I would like to ask another question. How far you need to run manualy from the pvp fight, before you can type autopath/speedwalk?
Is it about distance or time?
Re: Autohunt/flee
Posted: 31 May 2021 14:43
by Cherek
I think most people (everyone?) understand the point of this rule, right? If we allow all kinds of hunting triggers, scripts, etc, PVP would basically be all about who has the best connection to the server. But if we don't allow hunting triggers, it also makes it basically impossible to hunt someone using triggers, aliases, scripts, speedwalking etc, to escape PVP combat, so, hence the rule. In a perfect world we'd have some sort of coded solution for this, but we don't, yet, so... we have this rule.
I am starting to get a bit annoyed that people try to find loopholes and use "creative" ways to interpret the rules in order to still be able to escape and/or hunt. Like, manually typing "track" and having triggers for the movement? Come on. I really do think ALL players understand this also breaks the rules? There is something called "the spirit of the law" or in this case, rule, and I think you all already know what we've tried to accomplish with this rule. It's hardly a new rule, it's been around for a long time. I am tempted to start to VERY actively monitoring this myself and start killing people. You've been warned!
Below I will answer some of your questions. But in the future, think about the spirit of the rules, and what they are meant to accomplish, and ask yourself the question first. Maybe you already have the answer.
Re: Autohunt/flee
Posted: 31 May 2021 14:46
by Tapakah
Saimon wrote: ↑30 May 2021 22:10
I would like to ask another question. How far you need to run manualy from the pvp fight, before you can type autopath/speedwalk?
I'd say, until you're no longer full of adrenaline.
Re: Autohunt/flee
Posted: 31 May 2021 14:49
by Cherek
Saimon wrote: ↑30 May 2021 22:10
I would like to ask another question. How far you need to run manualy from the pvp fight, before you can type autopath/speedwalk?
The rules state:
Code: Select all
While triggers make many things within the realms much easier, and using
speedwalking paths makes for quick travel, the use of these during player
versus player combat is prohibited. Using triggers to hunt another player
or using a speedwalking path to escape player versus player combat
will result in:
You can't use your triggers, aliases, paths, etc to escape player versus player COMBAT. So, as long as you are in combat it's illegal to use these means to escape it. So, juck check your "v" to see if you still have adrenaline or not. I figured the definition of being "in combat" is quite well-known in Genesis, but if it is unclear, I suppose this could be specified in the rules... Mirandus? What do you think?
Edit: Tapakah just beat me to it
Re: Autohunt/flee
Posted: 31 May 2021 15:00
by Cherek
Zar wrote: ↑30 May 2021 06:24
Sorry for stupid question:
If I initiate a pfight and other player leaves because of trigger this is an offense?
For example if I notice that specific player leaves the ship on "Disembark" phrase. I attack him on ship and say "Disembark", he disembarks and he broke the rule that will be punished by death on a second occurance?
Here we need to use the "spirit of the rules" again. If you have a trigger, that you always have, to disembark ships, and you happen to get attacked on a ship, and your ship arrives in port and you trigger fires, then technically you broke the rule. But, did you really break the spirit of the rule? Was your intention to use the trigger to escape combat? Did you continue to using triggers / paths to run away further? Did you get a big unfair advantage in the fight thanks to your trigger? If the answer is "no" to these questions, I don't think you'll be punished for this.
On the other hand, if you always have a trigger on "attacks you", with the purpse of running to a safe place if attacked, then yes, you definitley break the rules.
I think if you get someone elses trigger to fire by saying something, the same applies. Did they make their trigger in order to escape PVP combat? I don't think a disembark trigger is there mainly to escape combat, and the PVP-advantage gained from auto-disembarking is minimal. But if you expose or suspect someone is using a clear "escape PVP combat trigger", then it's probably a good idea to contact the aop, and please include the log in the mail or save a screenshot of the event.
Re: Autohunt/flee
Posted: 02 Jun 2021 17:36
by Redblade
Cherek wrote: ↑31 May 2021 14:43
I am starting to get a bit annoyed that people try to find loopholes and use "creative" ways to interpret the rules in order to still be able to escape and/or hunt. Like, manually typing "track" and having triggers for the movement? Come on. I really do think ALL players understand this also breaks the rules? There is something called "the spirit of the law" or in this case, rule, and I think you all already know what we've tried to accomplish with this rule. It's hardly a new rule, it's been around for a long time. I am tempted to start to VERY actively monitoring this myself and start killing people. You've been warned!
Oh these questions are important indeed. I am not trying to find a loophole or a creative ways to interpret the rules. I am trying to make sure that at some point when someone breaks the rule against me, resulting in my death, I can use this thread as my argument to both my restoration and their punishment. It seems to me that quite often people apparently inherently interpret the rules differently and subsequently when they ask for restoration/punishment, they are turned away with a different interpretation of the rules.
Having a VERY clear, penned down interpretation of the rules IS important. I understand the endless questions are annoying. But do understand the players too. For example, from what you write as "it's hardly a new rule" and all that's answered here, I could ask for punishment on several players
but I haven't before, because the rules weren't clear and by now it's obsolete
Re: Autohunt/flee
Posted: 02 Jun 2021 17:51
by Cherek
Redblade: Sure, I agree that the more clear a rule is, the better. What specifically have you felt was unclear in the past, and is it still unclear? Do you have a suggestion on how to better write these rules?
We can always tweak the wording in the rules to make things more clear, I am all for that, but the post you quoted was aimed mainly at players who _deliberately_ try to find loopholes and circumvent the rules, knowing perfectly well that what they are doing is against the spirit of the rule. Trying to write rules that covers all bases, without it becoming a looooong text is hard, and it becomes even harder to manage potential rule violations when players get out of their way to find loopholes. Instead, ask us to clarify, tell us that you've found a potential loophole instead of using it to your benefit, and help us create good fair rules.
And just to be clear, this isn't aimed at you personally Redblade. I have no idea if you deliberately try to find loopholes and use them to your advantage or not.