Vampires

[Nerull]

So, we can establish that this door swings both ways.

Undeads healing undeads for the sake of griefing
Living healing living for the sake of griefing

if we take items out of the equation then 'both ways' = vamps vs sohm + healing layman lol

cause vamps are the only guild to combine wizard spells (invisibility) with cleric spells (heal)....not to mention fighter combat capabilities, rogueske skills (super high awareness) and QoL featueres (scry resist, poison resist, no hunger, darkvision etc) on top of that

end-game contet i guess

What's wrong with layman healing?

And you are wrong on the second account

[Kvator]

What's wrong with layman healing?

???

And you are wrong on the second account

which part?

[Nerull]

You said "sohm + layman healing lol". It can be interpreted that the healing is weaker than what is given in the vampires, or that just because it's a caster, or sohm in this case, its for some reason worse off when it comes to healing npcs others are fighting?

The main issue here is fighting an npc that someone invisible is healing, isn't it? Lets start here first, for clarification.

[Kvator]

You said "sohm + layman healing lol". It can be interpreted that the healing is weaker than what is given in the vampires, or that just because it's a caster, or sohm in this case, its for some reason worse off when it comes to healing npcs others are fighting?

The main issue here is fighting an npc that someone invisible is healing, isn't it? Lets start here first, for clarification.

So, we can establish that yout interpretation is wrong.

SOHM/healing layman can grief in the same way but while it's actually a solid combo it can't melee like top fighter guild (weapon skill, defences, special attack) and don't have awareness of top rogue guild at the same time

in grand scheme of things that's the main issue (vamps getting the best* from all worlds + some additional features on top of that)

* ok they don't have dps of top 'caster' guilds

[Nerull]

Today's lesson:

Vamp spells don't stop their invisibility letting them grief others without even attacking them (staying on location and healing a mob others are trying to kill).

Great guild design!

end-game content for the win <3

(being unscry'able is also nice, but I guess something has to offset their big racial drawback of never getting hungry!)

This is your original complaint, Kvator, atleast from 27. This has been true to all healingspells for...years, probably long before I even recode the vampires. You make it sound like its a vampire only thing, which it definitely is not. Then you mix in stuff related to the undead shadow, which is not an Vampire exclusive thing either. Yes, we get it, you don't like the undead guilds, vampires, mm etc, but atleast make a mediocre attempt at a rational approach.

If the issue is healing npc that you are fighting, then the obvious vector of attack is to address the healing spells. I will give you a few solutions:

1. Let healingspells break invis the same way it does when you attack from invis, similar to nukes.
2. Prevent healing from being cast if caster is invis. This is a 5 minutes fix on a global scale.

I don't mind in the slightest to put such restrictions on the healingspells, and I assume Vampires will probably barely feel it. Others however, who perhaps have used healing while invis for years, may have a different opinion on it.

Cherek/Ckrik - Thoughts?

[Kvator]

This is your original complaint, Kvator, atleast from 27. This has been true to all healingspells for...years, probably long before I even recode the vampires. You make it sound like its a vampire only thing, which it definitely is not. Then you mix in stuff related to the undead shadow, which is not an Vampire exclusive thing either. Yes, we get it, you don't like the undead guilds, vampires, mm etc, but atleast make a mediocre attempt at a rational approach.

as I mentioned earlier -> I was pretty sure that all 'targeted' abilities (attacks/spells etc.) should break the invis and this was my first encounter of such nature since i started playing this game

if it's 'global' issue then it should be dealt on global level

If the issue is healing npc that you are fighting, then the obvious vector of attack is to address the healing spells. I will give you a few solutions:

1. Let healingspells break invis the same way it does when you attack from invis, similar to nukes.
2. Prevent healing from being cast if caster is invis. This is a 5 minutes fix on a global scale.

proposed roadmap for 2024:

-> change invis to break via any 'targeted' action (ability, spell, attack)
-> remove transportable sources of darkness (a.k.a darkness blobs)
-> fix the bug where you can't wear golden gauntlets when you have 'Resilient' racial ability
-> close vamp guild

sounds like a plan to me!

[Nerull]

1 of 4 isn't so bad. If the admin adresses this, it will naturally, or probably, the first one.

[tor]

It seems as if there may be complications/unintended implications if healing is made to trigger combat. It also makes sense that, with decent awareness, you'd notice an invisible person casting spells in the same room as you.

Instead of healing/spellcasting while invis initiating combat, why not have the caster have a chance to be seen, based on an observer's awareness?

Something like...

With the aid of your keen senses, you catch a flicker of something that looks like the presence of magic being woven nearby.

and then looking at the room you would have a chance to see:

[A vaguely humanoid outline shimmers in the air here]

and have the ability for a short time to interact with the invisible individual. "Kill outline" to engage the target while they're still invisible. If it happens to be functionally similar to the interaction between awareness and sneak/hide, perhaps a change like this could be part of a greater sneak/hide overhaul (if or when that happens)?

[Rache]

It seems as if there may be complications/unintended implications if healing is made to trigger combat. It also makes sense that, with decent awareness, you'd notice an invisible person casting spells in the same room as you.

Instead of healing/spellcasting while invis initiating combat, why not have the caster have a chance to be seen, based on an observer's awareness?

Something like...

With the aid of your keen senses, you catch a flicker of something that looks like the presence of magic being woven nearby.

and then looking at the room you would have a chance to see:

[A vaguely humanoid outline shimmers in the air here]

and have the ability for a short time to interact with the invisible individual. "Kill outline" to engage the target while they're still invisible. If it happens to be functionally similar to the interaction between awareness and sneak/hide, perhaps a change like this could be part of a greater sneak/hide overhaul (if or when that happens)?

I agree and support your post.

From anyone that WAS there, was there any indication that the Nazgul was being healed by "Someone", or did his health just keep going up? If there was an indication that someone was healing him (emotes or otherwise) then you'd think they would have been prompted to find an EC/truesight item to chase them away. I would see an issue if there was no message at all.

[Kvator]

From anyone that WAS there, was there any indication that the Nazgul was being healed by "Someone", or did his health just keep going up? If there was an indication that someone was healing him (emotes or otherwise) then you'd think they would have been prompted to find an EC/truesight item to chase them away. I would see an issue if there was no message at all.

there was a message

sadly I (and other team members apparently) forgot to put EC into my pocket this time around (tried scrycheck to be 100% sure who the trickster was, but well....can't do because 'end game content'! )