Changes.

[Targun]

Goirbagh

1. Your posts are full of logical mistakes and poorly constructed arguments that typically follow the rule of:

From a false assumption, you can prove anything you want.

2. You're mixing up definitions and use interchangeably words that have different meaning like "balance" and "equal" and back it up with with analogies that not only fail to capture the problem you try to describe, but portray opposite logical relationship.

3. You manipulate and disfigure others wording by taking sentences out of context and selectively applying literal reading.

4. You fail or intentionally chose not to grasp a concept of metaphor or analogy and even worse, you try to undermine the laws or description of the actual subject matter by discussing the subject matter of the metaphor, which is again, a logical error.

It's a one way relationship. Simplification. Information is lost. You can't go back and try to use it to argument something back from the original problem domain. It also proves you either don't or choose not to understand the meaning of word "equal".

Example of this behaviour is:

Space-Time is like a rubber sheet stretched on a frame. Massive objects distort the sheet more.

And then someone would start to discuss the properties of the rubber sheet, in order to derive behaviour of Space-Time.

5. You make personal trips.

In short, hallmarks of internet troll collected. Congratulations. Achievement unlocked.

[Goirbagh]

Thank you for your feedback. Could you pick one of the mistakes out and quote it so we can discuss it to clarify?

[Quantum]

Regarding your take on game balance: As I understand it, you feel it's interesting if some races are simply better/worse than others in combat, and the same goes for guilds. That kind of goes against what almost all other games tend to strive for - balance. What you are suggesting is basically to take the game of chess, and have a different set of rules for white compared to black. Rules that make white a much worse option than black. That is how races in Genesis work today. Would chess be fun if one player is playing with a different set of rules, that makes winning almost impossible? Is chess currently boring because you, as a black player, has the same chance of winning as the white player? Yes, I know it's an extreme likeness, but, I mean that is kind of what you are saying? Different races should have different sets of rules. Depending on which race you pick, you will play Genesis in "easy", "normal" or, "hard" mode?

I like that you use the chess board to exemplify the changes. But I think you overestimate some of the racial differences. It's not that only white or black can win. It's not that the rules are so one-sided that one side always wins. A chess board is a balanced game where several pieces are the same, and then some have their own weird rules. Much like some guilds feel the same (merc/da/gladiator/aa) while others are wildly different (kender/MM). Which makes the game fun.

I think some of us worry that you are replacing all the special pieces and only leave 16 peasants on the board for each side. Because you want equality of opportunity, it may end out with equality of outcome. Which is not desirable. We don't want everyone to be the same.

Having a bishop move as many tiles as he wants to, does not make him overpowered. It just means that his strength is that he can move far, diagonally. Now if that piece can move like a queen, then it's not a bishop it's a queen. You need to keep pieces separated, like races in Genesis. If one race in Genesis can do everything, then yes things are clearly unbalanced. But if one race moves like a bishop, a tower or a knight, then he's not overpowered, he just has different rules for movement.

And yes, I am in favour of having some races being better fighter and some races being better mages.

It may be that some newly designed games want everything to be bland, but they, like many new players, churn through quickly and do not stick around. I like using World of Warcraft as an example because it is widely regarded as one of the most successful games of all times simply because it has been running for so damn long. Their races are not the same. There are very potent differences between them. Some races are only for Horde, some are only for alliance. Not all races can be all classes (guilds). And people love the game because of this diversity.

Can you pick a gnome warrior in wow? Yes. Can you raid with him? Yes. Will he win in a one on one duel with a tauren warrior? Not likely, but possible. Is a gnome a better thief? You bet!

Much like in Genesis some races were good melee and some were good mages and some were mostly for fun. Which was great!

Do we want some races to have a lot more + % than others? Nope. So even it out a bit. Don't strip all racial differences.

And honestly, trying to balance things so much that you end up with 16 queens instead on your side, probably not a fun game. A good game of chess requires peasants, towers, rooks, bishops, queens and kings. All of them. Variety.

[Quantum]

I think this post got somewhat derailed. That is not the intent of my thread.

Can we all(myself included) get back on point? And be nice?

To continue on my original thread - I think(guessing) most of us agree to a certain extent, that rolling back all changes is a bad idea. Feel free to disagree with my opinion.

But are there changes that you think could be updated, not required to be rolled back, just changed? I was really confused with the combat and magic update where white hits exploded in damage, and then they all got nerfed. And it felt like shields, evades and heals got nerfed. Felt like, personal opinion.

So why the massive change to white hits in the first place if things are later rolled back, changed, almost as massively?

If things are to be changed, could they be changed incrementally? Small baby steps instead of tsunamis? Sometimes these changes might be easier to digest if they weren't so massive.

Thoughts?

[Cherek]

Quantum: I wrote a rather long reply here, and then realised this is probably information that more people should read. So, I made it even longer and posted it in "Keeper's Corner" instead to give it a bit more "exposure" (I also posted about it on Discord).

So, you can read a much longer reply than you probably expected here: viewtopic.php?p=49416#p49416

[Quantum]

Excellent post with a lot of insight. I think you should sticky that one to give people an idea of what is going on "behind the scenes".

[Cherek]

Excellent post with a lot of insight. I think you should sticky that one to give people an idea of what is going on "behind the scenes".

Done.

[Alorrana]

In the hunt for equality for all, none will be.

I bid you all a happy mudding and a gg going forward.

Alo, signing out.

[zizuph]

In the hunt for equality for all, none will be.

I bid you all a happy mudding and a gg going forward.

Alo, signing out.

We will give the player the choice through meditation on how to build their characters stats, rather than define it significantly through their race..

If this is a deal breaker for you, I am sorry. This has been a negative issue for too many people for too long.

[Draugor]

In the hunt for equality for all, none will be.

I bid you all a happy mudding and a gg going forward.

Alo, signing out.

We will give the player the choice through meditation on how to build their characters stats, rather than define it significantly through their race..

If this is a deal breaker for you, I am sorry. This has been a negative issue for too many people for too long.

Best way to handle it, now only goblins will be at a disadvantage (and to some extent elves in MM but that's to my knowledge the only place) due to rampant racism Or specism?