Race change further explained

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Cherek
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Race change further explained

Post by Cherek » 10 Jan 2023 09:09

Okay, so I originally posted this as a reply in another thread, but I am gonna make a new thread about it, as I feel there are many misunderstandings and misconceptions about the upcoming race change. I think there are multiple reasons for this, to begin with my original explanation was probably not detailed enough (I did not want to make the post absurdly long). Me, Ckrik and Zizuph did try to add more detail and explain things in the previous thread, and we also made some adjustments to the original idea based on the feedback. However, the thread was quickly derailing and deteriorating at that point, so I guess some of those posts were lost in the "noise", and perhaps they weren't clear enough either. I also think some players jumped to conclusions, and posted things that made other players believe what they were posted was the truth. All in all, I think all of us have to take some of the blame for the confusion.

So, I will try again to explain the details of the upcoming race change, and I will also let you know the current status of that project. Here we go.

The race change, explained in detail

As most of you probably know, each race has a set of six numbers as "stat modifers". Humans are the baseline, and all other races have stat modifers in the form of +X, -Y, etc, compared to the human baseline. Currently the + and - of the modifers do not add up. Some have just more than others, which is one thing we are fixing. If we used the current humans as the baseline and balanced everyone against them we would indeed be nerfing the other races, since humans right now has the _lowest_total. Therefore we are first boosting humans, and THEN balancing the other races against the NEW human baseline. That way we avoid nerfing as much as possible.

After the change, regardless of which +/- numbers we eventually decide on, humans will be boosted the most since they start at the lowest point. Goblins will receive the second biggest boost since they are mathematically the second-worst race. Elves and dwarves will also get a slight boost, hobbits notiice no change, while gnomes will get a minimal, hardly noticable, nerf. Gnomes are the only race that will find themselves a tiny bit smaller in total. In order to also boost them we would have needed to boost humans a bit too much. We felt that giving four races a boost, one race no change, and one race, which almost nobody plays, a tiny nerf was the best solution.

Now, you probably wonder, are hobbits and gnomes the best races since they are the ones who will remain unchanged or slightly nerfed? Well, mathematically their modifiers are the "best", however, the reason they have the highest total number is because of the extreme dex and int, and in order to have so high numbers in one single stat, they have so many drawbacks, making them actually the worst choices for most players, despite having the highest total numbers. So, even though their total number will remain unchanged, or slightly nerfed, they will actually perform much better overall because they will have much more even stats with fewer drawbacks. So, while they don't receive a mathematical boost, they will probably feel like the most boosted races.

So, in short, after the change, human, goblin, elf and dwaf players will become slightly bigger, hobbits are not changed, and gnomes will be a tiny tiny bit smaller. This means the absolute majority of players will receive a boost, or at the very least remain unchanged.

But goblins will still feel nerfed because their physicals will go down and they will be boring and even like humans?

No, that is another misconception. As ZIzuph mentioned somewhere, and just like Draugor suggested above, we will adjust the way learning preferences work as well in order to allow more "extreme" stat distributions. If you wanna go elf-style mentals, you will be able to. If you wanna go goblin-like physicals, you will be able to. The difference will be that EVERYONE will be able to do that. You can play a goblin-like human with high physicals and low mentals, or an elf-like human with high mentals and weak physicals. Same for the other races. The change will put the power in the hands of the players to define their own stats that suits their guild/playstyle better.

So, a current goblin player will be able to, with the help of the free thaumturgist, get stats that will be very similar to what they have today. But another race will also be able to do the same. Or, ROUGHLY the same. If we decide to keep some small modifers and don't do all even races, there will still be some small differences, and we probably won't allow extremes like today's hobbits and gnomes (because those kind of stats kind of suck anyway). But, most of the power in how to define your stats will end up in your hands.

We ARE balancing UP, and nobody, including goblins, will experience a nerf. Goblins will actually be somewhat bigger, and they will be able to be more or less the same killing machines as they are today, the only difference is that other races will be able to rival them as well. Is it "unthematic"? Yes it is. Will it be a more fun game for more players? I really think so.

Current status of the race change

We did get some good feedback before the other thread went bananas, which caused us to reconsider/adjust some things. One of the main concerns was that if we make the racial modifers too small, they will hardly be noticed by players, and then what is the point of them? This is very true, and I took that piece of feedback to heart. Currently we are working with two options:

- Adjust the modifers, just like in the original idea, but let the differences be somewhat bigger than we originally planned (and probably affect more stats), so the differences will be more noticable for players. The differences will still be much smaller than today, though.

OR

- Set all races to even "new human" stat modifers, but give them a few other, brand new, "racial traits" instead. Basically, we are re-exploring one of the other four main ideas that I presented to you before.

Regardless of which of the above options we decide on, everything I explained above will apply. That is, all races will be mathematically even in terms of total modifiers, and human, goblin, dwarf, and elf players will be boosted in size, hobbits will remain the same, and gnomes will be a tiny bit nerfed. Also, regardless of which option we decide on, learning preferences when you meditate will be adjusted as I explained above, so that players get a bigger chance to set their stats as they want them. That is, goblins can remain physical powerhouses if they want to, but the other races will be able to go in that direction too.

Quantum
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Re: Problems & Solutions, by yours truly.

Post by Quantum » 10 Jan 2023 09:21

Cherek wrote:
10 Jan 2023 06:18
Will it be a more fun game for more players? I really think so.
I think I agree, if there are some racial differences. Not huge ones, just something. Not enough to turn over the apple cart, but enough that some people will get that warm fuzzy feeling in their stomach.

Still aiming at end of january as release date?

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Cherek
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Re: Race change further explained

Post by Cherek » 10 Jan 2023 10:01

Quantum: Regardless of which of the two chocies we select there will be differences between the races. If it'll be in January or not probably depends on which option we select. The second one (with the "racial traits") requires more coding, so, January might be hard. But, we don't want this to drag out either, so as soon as possible is the plan.

qwertheangmarim
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Re: Race change further explained

Post by qwertheangmarim » 10 Jan 2023 18:27

What sort of things are you looking at for racial traits?
WOOH LETS GO!!!!! :P

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Cherek
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Re: Race change further explained

Post by Cherek » 10 Jan 2023 19:03

Well, we have a long list that is currently a first draft/work in progress, so I dont think it's a good idea to share details right now. That'll probably just cause more misunderstandings. It wont be powerful combat abilities, though.

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Snowrose
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Re: Race change further explained

Post by Snowrose » 10 Jan 2023 19:14

Race trait ideas.

imho racial traits probably should be minor things that offer a mild quality of life feature. or boost to non combat skill. or add a feature logical as something their classic boosted stat would provide

nightvision for elves is a famous one
or if not maybe they could get an awareness boost ( on top of what they got trained)
based on +wis and elves are often written with slightly enhanced senses "what do you see with your elf eyes"

maybe gnomes get no bank tax and better minimize rates(at gnome branches) due to the fact gnomes run most of the banks or maybe an herbalism boost (garden gnomes)

Maybe dwarves get more benefits from being drunk and able to drink more, maybe a resistance to poisoning ( based on standard effects of good con)
if genesis had more mining id say maybe a bonus to that.

hobbits could get more benefits from food their hunger drops quicker so they can eat more,
or a natural defense against death magic ( hobbits were able to resist onering better)

Maybe goblins can simply carry more, or have a bit of natural ac. (keeping with their general combat superiority theme) maybe they can move through alignments easier. (due to prejudice they have more good/evil focus)

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Cherek
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Re: Race change further explained

Post by Cherek » 10 Jan 2023 19:16

Have you been peeking at my list Snowrose? Hmmm! :)

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Snowrose
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Re: Race change further explained

Post by Snowrose » 11 Jan 2023 09:15

great minds think alike :)

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Zhar
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Re: Race change further explained

Post by Zhar » 12 Jan 2023 17:44

Snowrose wrote:
10 Jan 2023 19:14
Maybe dwarves get more benefits from being drunk and able to drink more, maybe a resistance to poisoning ( based on standard effects of good con)

hobbits could get more benefits from food their hunger drops quicker so they can eat more,
Dwarves already have that through the Rockfriends guild I believe (I do not remember if this feature was disabled at some point or not).

Getting hungry faster is actually a detriment rather than a boost.

But I guess both of those could be introduced on a global scale for hobbit/dwarf bases by letting them drink/eat over capacity.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Re: Race change further explained

Post by Kvator » 12 Jan 2023 19:12

Cherek wrote:
10 Jan 2023 09:09
Gnomes are the only race that will find themselves a tiny bit smaller in total. .
You really need to consider turning Gnomish Inventors into proper layman guild to offset that dramatic change :(

Gnome lives matter!

#GLM

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