Layman Branch Guild Leaders?

[Tarax the Terrible]

IM conversation between Alorrana and I.
We were "discussing" if layman members of a guild should be able to rise to leader positions.
Dunno if there are any rules about such a thing??
What is your opinion?

Tarax says:
need to ask wizzies to make capt and lieutennant not an auto position
we have leaders who not want to be in the position cus idle
Alorrana says:
yep
Tarax says:
also should be able to be commander, capt or lieu if not full AA
Alorrana says:
no..
then a monk could order the guild in to peace.
Tarax says:
If they the capt..
then thats fine
Alorrana says:
its not !
Tarax says:
can always rebel against a capt
it is the judges job to keep em in line
2 way street as they say
Alorrana says:
layman shouldnt be able to run OOC guilds.
never ever,
Tarax says:
Any member of the army should be able to be leader
if they best for job
Alorrana says:
not if layman,
and if your true aa you will lead them as full member
Tarax says:
by same logic we should have no layman members then
Alorrana says:
otherwise yoour not aa.
Tarax says:
I think all are members of the army
okay maybe no layman capt but layman lieutenant fine
Alorrana says:
wouldnt want say a Merc AA to lead angmar. I would rather a full AA leads the army. Layman members can be judges and corporals. more than enough. They choose to not be a full member of they army, wht should thay be able to have full controle then and all benefits..
hell no.
Tarax says:
because they can be merc to round out skills
if anyone is 100% committed to army they should be able to lead if they are capable.
Army needs good leaders
not care where they come from
Alorrana says:
but a layman isnt 100% committed..
Tarax says:
BS
its down to the character
thats what is cool about having layman members
they can be just as committed
makes the army stronger
my point of view is army should be able to have best leaders from whatever members
but maybe there is a law by wizzies saying no, dunno
Alorrana says:
'Then its not an Army
then your a merc.
Tarax says:
no then it is an army and a strong one
why have a crap occ leader if a lay would be better one
merc monk ogre whatever
MM too
Alorrana says:
what makes an army is its hard structure. valid members of the Army able to advance with in the army.. think then some merc comes along with hes layman attatch only and get voted in by buddies and then some full members will never get the chance.. no
Tarax says:
have to get it changed to not auto first
only capt can pass captainship to someone else
unless kicked out
Alorrana says:
then what point in vote system.
Tarax says:
a lot of buddies could bring the army down no matter what
vote for judges
we do not vote for capt atm
Alorrana says:
'Yes and suddenly you have a Army filled with mercs and ilks from all around and totally destroyed it for full AA members with they can just push out by voting..
nay nay nay
Tarax says:
BS
Alorrana says:
laymans are laymans for a reason
Tarax says:
if the full aa member is stronger as a leader they should make it so
Alorrana says:
Captains and lts should be older people who have no grudge on the world, able to lead and command be full member and devote its time to army.. not some lamo expert merc with grudges on the world.. that would be the bane of angmar if we let layman run our guild..
Tarax says:
full member not important, fully committed is
Alorrana says:
and fully committed to angmar is full aa..
Tarax says:
not at all
if you a merc
AA might be the only thing you give a crap about
same with others
it just makes us more flexible
A merc might be the best choice for leader..
Alorrana says:
lol
Tarax says:
as example
Alorrana says:
then it would be the mercenaries of myst mountain
Tarax says:
no
merc have no rp apart from what they make
Alorrana says:
the whole point of a guild is to have its guild member lead it.. and layman members following..
Tarax says:
the point is debatable
but that is not it
to serve MM
or to stand on own as Dark Lords army
different views
common goal
Alorrana says:
the only damned person that should be able to grasp captians chain when captain is inactive is judges and Lts. no layman members should run any guild what so ever. then it would be Mercs leading every guild due to combos they can get from benefitting from layman and the guild they are in. And genesis guild system would decay.. Here is an idea-.. 2 guilds one evil and one good.
then all can run for leadership-
Tarax says:
hehe
I totally disagree
why would it decay
Alorrana says:
because there would be no real guild members to lead em..
Tarax says:
whats wrong with being a merc aa if you care fully about AA
nothing wrong with getting best skills to serve as a soldier
Alorrana says:
just close off all guilds and make em layman
Tarax says:
thats just ridiculous
Alorrana says:
the point is that its something for that guild members only. full aa gives you benefits. Layman aa dosnt.
Tarax says:
game is about your character
characters rp
guilds are tools to help define the rp and give you skills.
Alorrana says:
no it isnt !! this game is grind and eq..
Tarax says:
bs
different for different ppl of course
Alorrana says:
and having a layman lead us would bring decay to the guild.
your way takes gen from what genesis is..
Tarax says:
we should post this on the forum
hehe
get others opinion

[Laurel]

a BDA General could become AA Captain as well? or a knight/Calian/Neidar/Ranger/etc. become lay monk (I know - it's not the option you find on every corner) and monk leader ... to opt for throwing out all lay AA members from monks?

there's like how many guilds that really could have such an issue (occ+lay branch+leadership) - AA, monks ... and? where's the benefit, T?

[Rhaegar]

I don't know how it is now, but in the past DO had completely different title sets for occupational and layman branches and lay members would never ever be able to get the position of leadership (not to mention the voting system).

[Alorrana]

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[Tarax the Terrible]

No I totally oppose this.. this idea.. and its sertanly onething that would end my days in Angmar and end my days in genesis. It undermines the whole guild consept in genesis.

Not cool holding us to ransom...
Its a discussion, and at the end of the day... It gets dark.

[Tarax the Terrible]

where's the benefit, T?

Get the best character for the job, no matter what.

Alorrana seems to be jumping straight to the worst case scenario.
I am imagining the best case. I don't consider occ or layman being a big hurdle if a character is committed to the guild.
There are various little or no pre-set sense of identity occupational guilds possible as combos.
The layman side of the character might me all they care about.

So a merc monk might make a great councillor. etc

And Yes, its not an issue that comes up very often. Archers not have leaders, or cadets.
Doesn't the Neidar have a lay branch (outside shield bearers) or did I dream that?

[Alorrana]

**

[Makfly]

I don't think I can agree with a blanket statement that layman members should never, ever assume leadership of an OCC guild. Maybe there would be some combination out there at some point, where it might make sense. But I do think that no character should ever be able to hold leadership in more than 1 guild at a time, be that Race, OCC or Layman.
Having one player rule several guild is a recipe for disaster, and other people should be given the chance instead of having one person consolidate power on one hand.

Still I can perfectly understand why guilds wants to make it harder for layman members to assume any kind of position of power, though. Like Fade being General of the BDA and wanting a Final Judge seat in the AA, at the same time.

[Tarax the Terrible]

I sort of took this into make believe land right away talking about a layman Captain but layman can already be Judges...
Fade is no longer General.
But I would have no problem having a General + Judge as a tool to cement an alliance.

General + Captain... It probably makes terrible RP sense but that would also probably be the coolest title ever worn in the history of evil players.

Guild Politics, gotta love it

[Alorrana]

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