Game Mechanic: Resistance (Magic) == Armour (Melee)

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Celephias
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Re: Game Mechanic: Resistance (Magic) == Armour (Melee)

Post by Celephias » 08 Aug 2013 20:48

Kas: You're absolutely right and that was the genesis (pun intended) of my point. I dumped a full mana tank nuking someone 'resisted up' and didn't drop them down to hurt.

However, this is exactly Petros' point. That resistances have been all over (both negatively and positively - choose your perspective ;-)) and need to be corrected.

I believe the immortals have been doing great work on this and its been obvious during the alpha/beta. For me, I was really poking at what is the desired end state should look like. I believe the immortals will deliver on that if we know what it is.

Greneth

Re: Game Mechanic: Resistance (Magic) == Armour (Melee)

Post by Greneth » 09 Aug 2013 01:54

What I'm curious about is what was the need for this change?

How does this effect PvP?

What is the cap on resistances?

Why were the items not introduced first to prevent abuse? (Which is gonna happen)

Alexi
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Re: Game Mechanic: Resistance (Magic) == Armour (Melee)

Post by Alexi » 09 Aug 2013 18:27

Just so I can get this straight in my head. Currently there are certain guilds out there that have innate resistant checks that ignore say Death Magic resistances you might have from an item. So instead of them having some modifier that's X% of damage reduced by Y it just ignores that?

What the new system will be is when someone is attacked, a global resistant check will occur and if someone is armoured to the teeth with Death Magic resistance, the correct migation will happen where in todays current code it won't be? NPCs will also have to follow the same code and won't be special coded to be immune to some guilds?

Also there will be a change to the melee damage resistances that might be active in the realms, where some NPCs just seem harder to hit/kill because someone coded them with huge resistances?

Thanks for taking the time to answer the above, but I'm just trying to figure it out myself.

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petros
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Re: Game Mechanic: Resistance (Magic) == Armour (Melee)

Post by petros » 09 Aug 2013 18:37

Alexi wrote:Just so I can get this straight in my head. Currently there are certain guilds out there that have innate resistant checks that ignore say Death Magic resistances you might have from an item. So instead of them having some modifier that's X% of damage reduced by Y it just ignores that?
They have abilities that don't bother to check whether the target has the appropriate resistance and just applies them.
Alexi wrote:What the new system will be is when someone is attacked, a global resistant check will occur and if someone is armoured to the teeth with Death Magic resistance, the correct migation will happen where in todays current code it won't be? NPCs will also have to follow the same code and won't be special coded to be immune to some guilds?
Yes, npcs and players alike will be affected once these abilities correctly check resistance.
Alexi wrote:Also there will be a change to the melee damage resistances that might be active in the realms, where some NPCs just seem harder to hit/kill because someone coded them with huge resistances?
This is what has been going on with the testing. As testers find ridiculous resistances, we make the appropriate changes.
Alexi wrote:Thanks for taking the time to answer the above, but I'm just trying to figure it out myself.
No problem. Thanks for taking the time to figure it out.

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Re: Game Mechanic: Resistance (Magic) == Armour (Melee)

Post by Alexi » 09 Aug 2013 21:03

petros wrote:
Alexi wrote:Just so I can get this straight in my head. Currently there are certain guilds out there that have innate resistant checks that ignore say Death Magic resistances you might have from an item. So instead of them having some modifier that's X% of damage reduced by Y it just ignores that?
They have abilities that don't bother to check whether the target has the appropriate resistance and just applies them.
Alexi wrote:What the new system will be is when someone is attacked, a global resistant check will occur and if someone is armoured to the teeth with Death Magic resistance, the correct migation will happen where in todays current code it won't be? NPCs will also have to follow the same code and won't be special coded to be immune to some guilds?
Yes, npcs and players alike will be affected once these abilities correctly check resistance.
Alexi wrote:Also there will be a change to the melee damage resistances that might be active in the realms, where some NPCs just seem harder to hit/kill because someone coded them with huge resistances?
This is what has been going on with the testing. As testers find ridiculous resistances, we make the appropriate changes.
Alexi wrote:Thanks for taking the time to answer the above, but I'm just trying to figure it out myself.
No problem. Thanks for taking the time to figure it out.
Well I can hardly see how that isn't a great game-change in the long run. I think there are quite a few NPC's out there that are coded specifically so people can't really kill them, be it damage reduction hard-coded or spell-damage reduction hardcoded without having items which give them this, just "Because" someone doesn't want them killed (Thinks Mergula).

Now I have a question that goes outside of the spell resistant check and more towards NPCS that were coded to heal like crazy which allows them to become close to unkillable which really is just another way of hard-coding resistances.

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petros
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Re: Game Mechanic: Resistance (Magic) == Armour (Melee)

Post by petros » 09 Aug 2013 21:36

About npcs that heal (ala the experience that Laurel had), I like to base those decisions on theme. Does it make sense that an npc heals to full health the moment someone else attacks? I would think not. Unless there's some specific lore in that realm about it, I'd sooner just take it out and make it more reasonable.

The way that the orc captain is done, for example, is thematic and much cooler.

Laurel

Re: Game Mechanic: Resistance (Magic) == Armour (Melee)

Post by Laurel » 09 Aug 2013 23:34

The doppelganger heals because it adjusts size to the team that attacks it. That's all I know and I find it more/less reasonable. It's still doing it for ogre-crush btw.

However there is at least one big NPC that is ... strangely coded to improve it's survivability. The way it has been done was by giving it quite higher intoxication level than achievable for players. You tell me if that's how the game mechanics should work ;p and I guess you can also tell me if it's only one, or if there is a lot more of such "workarounds".
This said NPC is not a pirate, nor dwarf, nor standing in any bar anyway.

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Strider
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< 1 ohm

Post by Strider » 10 Aug 2013 02:26

petros wrote:Someone wearing armour protects against melee attacks. Someone with magic resistance protects against magical attacks. If you have no resistance, it is exactly the same as going into combat without any armour if you encounter a spellcaster.
With melee, it's not quite so simple as all that, though, is it? There are multiple layers of protection and even at my size, I can be unencumbered enough to reliably take less damage unarmoured than with a variety of non-elite armour packages against a variety of foes.

I am recalling some discussion about the balance and utility of stats and the Adventurer's Guild training of magic, and wonder to what extent skill based, stat-modified resistance should be in play.

Now, the above could have interesting implications, but I'd argue it could very well be a step in the wrong direction, unless if there is something to work similarly to encumbrance in my melee analogy above; making your base-magical resistances dependent on your available mana pool percentage, should provide some very exciting strategy options.
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petros
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Re: < 1 ohm

Post by petros » 10 Aug 2013 06:01

strider wrote:
petros wrote:Someone wearing armour protects against melee attacks. Someone with magic resistance protects against magical attacks. If you have no resistance, it is exactly the same as going into combat without any armour if you encounter a spellcaster.
With melee, it's not quite so simple as all that, though, is it? There are multiple layers of protection and even at my size, I can be unencumbered enough to reliably take less damage unarmoured than with a variety of non-elite armour packages against a variety of foes.
I assume you're referencing the ability to "dodge" a melee attack due to dexterity, or defend against one using defence skill? If so, then those apply equally to the magical attacks as well. Your ability to dodge or "defend" against a magical attack is the same as against a melee attack. Encumberence affects both the same way. You may be able to make an argument for parry, since it's there's no counterspelling in Genesis. But there are compensations for that for magical attacks.

Greneth

Re: Game Mechanic: Resistance (Magic) == Armour (Melee)

Post by Greneth » 10 Aug 2013 13:36

My post sounded dickish, guess I jumped to conclusions a bit.

But will there be a cap on resistances like haste or will someone if geared right be able to nearly nullify a spells damage?

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