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Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Posted: 20 Jul 2019 00:05
by Drazson
Draugor wrote:[...] so if you want to be able to grind, start teaming or switch guilds
Sounds like solid advice for the Army of Angmar too then. Have fun y'all.

Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Posted: 20 Jul 2019 10:18
by Draugor
Drazson wrote:
Draugor wrote:[...] so if you want to be able to grind, start teaming or switch guilds
Sounds like solid advice for the Army of Angmar too then. Have fun y'all.
Well it's what I tell their members aswell, it's weird tho that they are outdps'd and outtanked by rogue guilds xD Or funny rather

Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Posted: 20 Jul 2019 11:04
by Kvator
Draugor wrote:
Drazson wrote:
Draugor wrote:[...] so if you want to be able to grind, start teaming or switch guilds
Sounds like solid advice for the Army of Angmar too then. Have fun y'all.
Well it's what I tell their members aswell, it's weird tho that they are outdps'd and outtanked by rogue guilds xD Or funny rather
They're outtanked by which rogue guild?
Outdps'd - I guess Assassins here (certainly not Rangers, Archers or Kenders). I guess Assassins outdps more 'fighter' guilds though.

Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Posted: 20 Jul 2019 13:12
by Draugor
Kvator wrote: Outdps'd - I guess Assassins here (certainly not Rangers, Archers or Kenders). I guess Assassins outdps more 'fighter' guilds though.
Assassins are more thought off as a combo guild and due to actually good design they are efficient :P

And kenders out dps Angmar :P Hell they even outtank them with evade, so yes, Angmar is far from beeing an effective fighterguild.

And again, if it's that horrible and bad beeing a kender, leave :P It's got their recode and a skillboost, if it still sucks it's a design issue OR a theme issue, then again Kenders are not warriors.

Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Posted: 20 Jul 2019 14:09
by Kvator
Draugor wrote:
Kvator wrote: Outdps'd - I guess Assassins here (certainly not Rangers, Archers or Kenders). I guess Assassins outdps more 'fighter' guilds though.
Assassins are more thought off as a combo guild and due to actually good design they are efficient :P

And kenders out dps Angmar :P Hell they even outtank them with evade, so yes, Angmar is far from beeing an effective fighterguild.

And again, if it's that horrible and bad beeing a kender, leave :P It's got their recode and a skillboost, if it still sucks it's a design issue OR a theme issue, then again Kenders are not warriors.
No. Kenders don't outdps AA - they're far from that (lower weapon skill, lower str, much weaker offensive special).

They don't outtank them either - slightly better defensive special is far from compensating lack of con and lack of shield (not to mention lower defence and parry skills).

Please don't spread this kind of bullshit around (some might believe lol).

Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Posted: 20 Jul 2019 15:19
by Draugor
Kvator wrote:
No. Kenders don't outdps AA - they're far from that (lower weapon skill, lower str, much weaker offensive special).

They don't outtank them either - slightly better defensive special is far from compensating lack of con and lack of shield (not to mention lower defence and parry skills).

Please don't spread this kind of bullshit around (some might believe lol).

How about you run a kender through darkelves and see if they get as smacked as ther myth angmarim I was dpsing for the other day :)

And EVEN IF, angmar are a fighter guild and SHOULD be better on bort departments, and they are not :P

Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Posted: 20 Jul 2019 16:23
by Kvator
Draugor wrote:
Kvator wrote:
No. Kenders don't outdps AA - they're far from that (lower weapon skill, lower str, much weaker offensive special).

They don't outtank them either - slightly better defensive special is far from compensating lack of con and lack of shield (not to mention lower defence and parry skills).

Please don't spread this kind of bullshit around (some might believe lol).

How about you run a kender through darkelves and see if they get as smacked as ther myth angmarim I was dpsing for the other day :)

And EVEN IF, angmar are a fighter guild and SHOULD be better on bort departments, and they are not :P
angmar IS better than kenders (and rangers and archers) in both departments.

Actually AA/Mino is pretty solid combo for soloing stuff and AA/Warlock can be solid combo for team-oriented tank (with 'focus on defence').

Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Posted: 20 Jul 2019 17:43
by nils
Kvator,

It's funny how you hold the belief that rogue-like guilds should, by any means, be equal to a purebred fighter (tank or offensive) guild. You also use the race's stats as an argument!

The very idea that this creature
kender.png
kender
kender.png (101.16 KiB) Viewed 595 times
.. should be comparable to something like this:
goblin.jpg
typical D&D goblin
goblin.jpg (43.42 KiB) Viewed 595 times
.. is completely and utterly absurd.


A kender is a weak creature, the fact that they are now close to or equal to an angmarrim is completely and utterly absurd as well. Now, I don't judge those who choose to play a kender, and I'm sure its rewarding in its own way, but it sure ain't, and shouldn't be, in combat. Being a fighter is a choice, being a kender is a choice, but they sure aint the same.

Now, this was not supposed to be a "but kenders are worse" or "rangers are worse"-kind of bickering, but a desperate attempt to bring one of the most historical guilds to the same -playability- as the other COMPARABLE fighter-guilds, and here's why.

The design of the Army of Angmar is, and has always been, club in one hand, shield in the other. And back when everyone held title champion, this was fine. You always needed a tank to bring down larger mobs, and for smaller players this still holds true.

However, when size reaches a certain point, guild-provided defensive prowess is rendered useless, and stats in combination with the right equipment is more than sufficient to act as the designated tank. Here the combat aid provided in defensive are lost, the guild design loses it's appeal, and is basically a guild only suitable for smaller players until they, too, reach a certain size.

Also, a guild full of tanks do not team. The very concept is counterproductive to combat as an actual army. There's only room for one angmar in a team, and his or her position is in the front to absorb the hits. Every angmar in that team loses his or her combat aid, holding an unused shield.

When an angmar switches to a two-handed weapon he does indeed sacrifice his shield, but he gets nothing in return to do this. Whatever combat aid is designated to the use of the shield is just lost, not traded.

For the guild to be playable in 2019 it needs a very small adjustment to it's special.

The combat aid for use of shield should transfer to the special when wielding a weapon in both hands.

Players know this, developers know this, admin knows this. It's being kept at its current state because thematics, but as the game evolves, guilds must too. Egoes must be checked in. Bias must be set aside. The game needs the Army of Angmar, and the Army of Angmar need players of all sizes. Surely no one is deliberately holding the Army back because of a war twenty+ years ago? That would be quite absurd.

I am of the impression that a couple of lines of code needs to be removed, and a couple lines of code needs to be added in the guild special and the guild is ready for the current and the future. It's done in a matter of minutes.

Now I'll be the first one to support any effort to recode the Rangers, I think they deserve it, but I also believe the undertaking is quite massive and hence is best discussed in a different thread.


Pretty please, with sugar on top, mend my beloved guild. Let me stay in it, let me be valuable to others in other aspects than a tank, let me grow at the same rate as every other fighter.

Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Posted: 20 Jul 2019 18:04
by Zugzug
nils wrote: Pretty please, with sugar on top, mend my beloved guild. Let me stay in it, let me be valuable to others in other aspects than a tank, let me grow at the same rate as every other fighter.
HA. Haha. HAHAhahaha.

It almost sounds like you think that the upstairs-in-charge don't know about lack of balance and are trying to educate them.

Quite commendable, keep it up please!

:joy:

Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Posted: 20 Jul 2019 18:59
by Kvator
nils - goblins having same con as dwarves is quite an absurd as well :)