How to solve Genesis' (apparently) biggest issue (race mods)

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Draugor
Myth
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Re: How to solve Genesis' (apparently) biggest issue (race m

Post by Draugor » 05 Jan 2017 16:56

Mumon wrote:I like that races have advantages and disadvantages in stats.

However imho it's quite poorly implemented in Genesis.

A more balanced approach would be to define the +/- as % of the unmodified statavg of the character and have them balance out so the modified statavg equals the unmodified statavg.

A hypothetical example race with hypotetical stats not related to Genesis:

Race lizardman
----------------------
dex +10%
con +10%
int -10%
wis -10%

Unmodified stats (statavg 200):
------------------------------------------
str 250
dex 250
con 250
int 150
wis 150
dis 150

Modified stats (also statavg 200):
--------------------------------------------
str 250
dex 250 + (10% * 200) = 270
con 250 + (10% * 200) = 270
int 150 - (10% * 200) = 130
wis 150 - (10% * 200) = 130
dis 150

Knowing how the mudlib that Genesis is built on I think race stat bonuses/penalites should stay in the range +/- 10% to keep it balanced.

/M


There we go, agreed.

Boreaulam
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Re: How to solve Genesis' (apparently) biggest issue (race m

Post by Boreaulam » 05 Jan 2017 20:11

Mumon, what is an advantage over current system?

Thalric
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Re: How to solve Genesis' (apparently) biggest issue (race m

Post by Thalric » 05 Jan 2017 22:05

I would rather change this approach, into giving the races a set number of stat-points for the bonuses

which would mean that at lower levels the changes are very visible, but as you grow bigger, their % of your total stat is very little, and it comes down to how you distributed your stats in meditation.

Mumon
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Re: How to solve Genesis' (apparently) biggest issue (race m

Post by Mumon » 05 Jan 2017 22:26

Boreaulam wrote:Mumon, what is an advantage over current system?
It is a bit hard to explain w/o going into code details which I get the impression is frowned upon in this forum but I'll try.

The current system works by multiplying the xp you have put into a stat with a factor. I.e. the more xp you put in a stat the greater advantage you get from a specific race bonus.

This for instance has the effect that you have certain races that can be at the top of a ranking in a certain stat for which they have a bonus at a relatively low level if they also focus their xp in that stat.
It also has the effect that some races can get quite a high stat avg boost by focusing xp on the stats they have bonuses in and pretty much disregard the stats they have a penalty in.

With my proposal the boost you get from focusing xp on a a stat is balanced by the fact that the racial bonus is based on your unmodified stat avg.
Because when you focus xp on one or more stats you will get a lower stat avg compared to if you distribute your xp evenly, and thus you will get a somewhat lower racial bonus.

Also there will be no way to "gamble" the system to get a higher stat avg by distributing your xp according to your race bonuses since with my proposal the modified stat avg = unmodified stat avg.

/M

Boreaulam
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Re: How to solve Genesis' (apparently) biggest issue (race m

Post by Boreaulam » 06 Jan 2017 19:56

First of all, nice idea. Just brainstorming...

As far as I know (I don't have vast knowledge how exp mechanics work).
If you multiply exp by factor it's effect is decreased by exp curve. It balances it for huge characters.
If you just add bonus right to stats it gives huge advantage.

Also, I see less logic in case that investing in DIS as lowest stat will cause bonus to my STR.

But it is worth to continue discussing such things.

Celemir
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Re: How to solve Genesis' (apparently) biggest issue (race m

Post by Celemir » 07 Jan 2017 00:28

I can't say i understand all the workings of the stats and what they are used for. Some are clearly more useful then others and the weights can change,- one can always change the stat weights. At a point in this game it was a big advantage to be very agile, to a point where it was better then strength, if i recall correctly.
But i digress, how about making the difference it a flat rate, instead of a procent. At some point procent values vil always brake.
You could put the hole difference in the start, or give a couple of points pr level. but the difference would be controlled and would never rise above reasonable levels.

Cerin
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Re: How to solve Genesis' (apparently) biggest issue (race m

Post by Cerin » 27 Feb 2017 19:28

Why do races need stat +/- in the first place? I mean I get the whole "That is just the way its been done since the beginning of time...", but far as the game goes... whats the purpose? Maybe I just don't understand something but it seems to me like the whole stat +/- does more harm then good. 5 billion goblins, handful of humans, few elves, a hobbit or two and what are gnomes?

Couldn't there just be equal stats for all the races and your racial choice was picked through the guild you want and roleplay? Lots of guilds already dictate the races allowed, just seems like this system only further alienates certain races based on combat stats. Just seems like a system no one is quite happy with and there is no clear improvement on the system without lots of work, so just get rid of it until someone can come up with something a bit more fair?

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Mim
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Re: How to solve Genesis' (apparently) biggest issue (race m

Post by Mim » 28 Feb 2017 14:23

Cerin wrote: 5 billion goblins, handful of humans, few elves, a hobbit or two and what are gnomes?
And the few of us who try to act dwarves.
Even the nobles in Kabal crack jokes about us.
The game has laughed at us since the creation.
As an explorer, you have done enough to retire.

Amberlee
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Re: How to solve Genesis' (apparently) biggest issue (race m

Post by Amberlee » 28 Feb 2017 16:56

Been saying racial modifiers need to change in genesis.
They don't belong in the game as they currently are.
However when the admin is too afraid of change..
Well then nothing happens :)
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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Cherek
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Re: How to solve Genesis' (apparently) biggest issue (race m

Post by Cherek » 28 Feb 2017 17:05

Amberlee wrote:Been saying racial modifiers need to change in genesis.
They don't belong in the game as they currently are.
However when the admin is too afraid of change..
Well then nothing happens :)
So the reason stat modifiers are what they are is because we are "too afraid" to change them? Well that's news to me! Which one of the admin members told you that?:)

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