Evil guilds, more or less folded?

[Cherek]

Regarding weapons and quests:

Its no secret I like quests and dislike grinding. Its really no secret most people are the opposite. Or at least most who voice their opinion.

But just making questing optional without doing anything else would mean actually removing quests from the game. If they only gave XP and brute was not a concept, there would be absolutely no use in doing them since the rewards are WAY too low to mean anything at all. Now they at least lower your brute. Remove that and quests arent optional, they are removed.

And if we removed quests completely this turns into only grinding and nothing else. I think that would be a terrible step to take.

I hear alot of people say that quests should be optional, but I still havent heard any suggestions HOW to make this optional. I dont have a really good idea myself.. but I'd love to hear one.

Regarding weapons saving...

It introduces other problems.

What if we had some type of "locker" system. Like the minstrel guild. You store your EQ, and you get it back when you return. If you dont return to claim it for a few days the EQ is lost, meaning anything unique returns to the game again. Its easy to implement with the current EQ, without the need to fundamentally change how EQ works. However, the big problem is of course a few elite players would carry the best EQ always and none would ever get a chance to use it. Making EQ save permanently on your person has the same problem.

Remove unique weapons? So everyone can go get their own set of the best possible equipment and carry it forever? Well... sure. It'll change the game completely though. Will it make it better? I dont know? Will it?

Before we do anything drastic though, I think one small thing we could do is to increase LD-times. It would do two things, 1, you could hang on to your EQ a little while longer and dont have to quit and restart _every_ time. And 2, it would increase the playerbase. Yes it would be somewhat of an illusion of more players in the game. But even that I think can be helpful. Seeing more players is motivating. LD or not. Also, with longer LD times players maybe will return to play a little more often instead of quitting for the day.

I think that could be worth a test at least. Unless there is some technical problem prohibiting this. Give it a month of longer LD, and see what happens?

If it proves successful maybe implement it a little better... instead of having to press the disconnect button, just call it "sleep" and introduce the sleep command. Makes it a little bit more RPish at least.

[Kas]

The apprenticeship in the tower serve some purposes, Ashur.

If an apprentice have issues with separating his new ROLE vs his puppetmaster, then there will be issues since it's
primarily a ROLEPLAYING guild. As an apprentice, you are given the role as a dirty unworthy lowranked slave of
the Eye, and you are expected to play that role until you gradually change over time to something more valuable. It
can be quite fun if you don't take stuff personal (and btw, you will always be a slave. The Nine are slaves under the
Black Master).

The apprenticeship is an own "mini-game", some would say it's a journey and it won't necessarily fit all players. I'm sure
many of the full members remember parts of their journey as some of the best time in the guild, and I'm pretty sure
most of the Nine agrees to that aswell.

[Azarias]

@Cherek

Theres quite a few threads on here that talk about alternate rewards for quests, a few you even posted in I believe.

[Cherek]

Azarias: I know. I said I havent found any _good_ solutions to it. Not even my own suggestions are really good... there's always some flaw...

I like the idea of removing different types of XP, and upping the rewards greatly for quests, making them an alternative to grinding. Just as grinding will be an alternative to questing. However, this would mean a huge boost in size of most players who are currently already big. I am not sure if thats so good...

[Makfly]

...But just making questing optional without doing anything else would mean actually removing quests from the game.

This sentence speaks volumes in itself.
It seems that even you know that quests suck, and nobody (except you) would be doing them if they were truely made voluntary.
Also in relations to finding a good solution, I think plenty of fine solutions have been presented in the past - And anything is better than the status quo, really.


@Kas
The way the MM handles apprenticeships can be the worst of times, as it can be the best of times.
It's all dependent on interaction with other players, and so the experiences of the apprenticeship can vary vastly.
Personally I've had both good and bad experiences with it, and I've heard just as many varied experiences from other people too. So what Ashur is a legitimate issue, as unfortunately the apprentice period can really suck and perhaps that's what he have experienced.

[Kas]

Embrace the suck before the suck embraces you!

Mind over Matter, if you don't mind the lessons placed upon you during the apprenticeship, it won't matter. You
will eventually become a full member of the guild, bad experiences or not.

The guild gives you a chance to apply and join in short order regardless who you are and your past with very
few requirements(several other guilds are far more restrict than we). In order to gain what the guild have to
offer(and the penalties with it), I think it's perfectly in order for a player to truly earn the right, and it has
been a morgul tradition for over a decade, all back since Gorboth & co, the first generation mages, forged our
morgul legacy.

I don't think we should make it much easier than it already is.

[Cherek]

Makfly. Oh just stop it. You know what I meant I am sure. But if not:

Removing brute would mean quests no longer have any real rewards. What game has elements in it that has no reward?

Yes I think quests can be fun. No I am not the only one. But obviously solving them needs to be rewarded. Its not like I just go out and solve quests for the fun of it only, without a reward. Just as little as you go out killing 200 trolls just for the fun of it without getting a rewards for it.

I would love to have grinding somewhat optional too. So you can chose if you wanna focus on quests mainly or combat mainly. In theory we have that system now, in a way, but since so many are unhappy I guess its not working very well.

And instead of saying "many solutions have been presented in the past"... remind us? I said I had not seen a good solution but I would love to see one. If you sit on that information, tell me... us...

And no I dont think quests suck. Ask me what I think instead of making assumption on how you think I feel... such assumptions usually dont lead anywhere...

[Kas]

Remove brute, and use the questxp for alternative rewards.

Like, using random numbers of questxp:

At 10 questxp, ability A is unlocked (or, you can select something from tier A abilities)
At 20 questxp, ability B is unlocked (vice versa, B abilities)
At 40 Qxp, C abilities
At 80 Qxp, D abilities.

Now, example of an ability: 5% bonus on fatigue/max health/better x skill/a minor power or ability with cooldown and so forth

Perhaps an additional title every x tier on the list and so forth. Use your imagination.

Sounds great to me, really.

[Cherek]

Kas: Wouldnt everyone feel the "need to have that" too? And feel quests arent optional all over again?

I wonder how far you'd get if you solved no quests and spent all that time grinding instead. How big can you realistically be without solving a single quest?

[Kas]

Not if the abilities aren't entirely gamebreaking. If you collect, 10 abilities with 5% bonus in different fields, its a boon for sure, but it won't necessarily make a huge shift in power.

Some abilities may be entirely PVE-related aswell(Now this is something worth exploring)

I see tons of ways to do this one without making huge pvp-shifts in power.