View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently 18 Jul 2019 20:56

Forum rules


- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.



This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Genesis racestat modifiers, claim. 
Author Message
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 03 Mar 2010 07:50
Posts: 473
Kas wrote:
The problem with con vs dex/str I belive is something like this: Con increases your hp-pool in a linear fasion(I assume), so even with the differences in racial modifiers, in the "endgame", the actual or total hp-pool for a dwarf vs an elf won't necessarily be that huge, and it's equal for everyone, melee or caster alike. It scales the same.

Str and Dex may be factors in equations calculating damage, and using for example STR _multiplied_ with some other factor, even _small_ actual differences in racial modifiers alone can have a very huge impact in damage that really starts to shine at myth++ in a nonlinear fasion. Might aswell be exponential.
This statement is very wrong. First, let's assume that CON increases your hp pool linearly. It is thus multiplied by some factor. That's the meaning of linear. When STR is multiplied by some factor, it should thus also be linear, not exponential and not non-linear.

Now the reality is that in Genesis, almost everything having to do with combat has a soft cap. For example, at low levels, you gain stats quickly. For the same amount of experience at high levels, you gain stats more slowly. In the same way, these stats don't directly translate into numbers used for combat. They get translated into numbers that also have a soft cap. So +[numbers removed] STR at low levels gets you much more than +[numbers removed] STR at high levels. So you now have 2 "soft caps", which makes improvements at high levels very difficult. For the math inclined, it's the opposite of what is being claimed as exponential - it's logarithmic.

Now, as for differences between races. Each race has its own benefits when it comes to combat.
DEX translates into ability to score hits and avoid hits.
STR translates into ability to deal more damage.
CON translates into ability to withstand more damage.

Each can be translated into combat aid. So if my race gives me DEX combat aid while yours gives STR combat aid, we will theoretically be the same (all else being equal, such as how we allocated our improvements). Most perceptions of inequality about race have to do with people who have skewed vastly their improvements. So they have crazy stats in one category, while lame stats in another. This makes their mortal levels seem small, but they actually pack more wallop. So a hero may be able to beat a champion. In the end, however, their overall gxp, qxp, etc may be the same.


07 Jan 2013 03:23
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2759
Petros: I think that is how most people feel it works too, at least its how I figured it works. But the imbalance when Goblins have average or better in all three combat stats. Dwarves are better than avg in two, and considerably worse in one. Humans are average all over. The rest of the races are below average in all but one combat stat (dex). I think we'd have more balanced races, but still unique, if all races had the same combat stat averages?


07 Jan 2013 03:39
Profile
Myth

Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14
Posts: 1715
Cherek wrote:
Petros: I think that is how most people feel it works too, at least its how I figured it works. But the imbalance when Goblins have average or better in all three combat stats. Dwarves are better than avg in two, and considerably worse in one. Humans are average all over. The rest of the races are below average in all but one combat stat (dex). I think we'd have more balanced races, but still unique, if all races had the same combat stat averages?



Same stats is a silly idea, make the differences smaller on the other hand, give each race for an example... [numbers removed] points to raise with and [numbers removed] that you have to take away, even if you put all 50 into str it wont be a difference as HUGE as it is now. Then everyone has the same plus and the same minus, just in different places, now alot of races have ALOT of points in some stats that are very important, like Goblins for instance with str and con, lets say they have the same stats raised but only with [numbers removed] on each, and minus [numbers removed] in int and DIS, elves could get [numbers removed] in dex and [numbers removed] int, while also getting [numbers removed] minus in str and con. Right now its like... goblins get [numbers removed] str and con, 0 bonus in dex and [numbers removed] minus in int and dis, but to be honest, DIS is easy to counter and INT? Who gives a flying **** about int when yer in a combat guild? I'm not saying Goblins shouldnt be the physically strongest race, but it doesent have to be so insanely high on the str and con.

A fixed set of points and not to many of them equal to ALL races, no race gets more or less they only get the places in different spots, it could make it so that when a elf hits myth they are only one or one and a half str lvl behind a goblin as opposed to the 3-4 lvls I assume they are behind now considering the incredible whining I hear from Amberlee all the time.

This wouldnt make for a HUGE gap like it is now. Atleast shrink the gap some so that the prancing elves shut up about the whining ;) And hobbits based races just created theire chars alittle to late I recall when DEX counted for damage, not to many that cried when hero hobbits kicked the living crap outa myth goblins.

And Greneth, alot of guilds have int as a factor aswell yes, rumours that I have heard from... well lets just say ALOT of people and yes some people have for one reason or another a VERY good insight into these guilds, as I dont have the code or can get confirmation from a wizard I cant say with a 100% certainty, Slash for instance relies heavily on str, same with kattack, and we've seen the insanity that str can do with slash, I recall beeing BDA when the imbuements came, and getting a full level of str increased slash damage by ALOT, same with regular hits. So int is a minor factor on specials, do I think int should play a bigger role in combat? Absolutely but I believe it would be a bitch to implement another factor in combat. Facts are that they are heavily reliant on str or dex and very little on int, sure int might help in some cases but... its not like anyone takes int over str, you gain to much from int in terms of beeing able to carry stuff, regular hits and usually special attacks.

Hell when I was a GLadiator last time I had 3 lvls of str imbue on me, Gladiator/MInotaur, ask Kaz and Aruman if they had fun when I jumped them in Solace, we're talking several lvls of hp with each hit disapearing. And charge+goring greenie down to BS or VH from fwv all because of str, so saying that INT is a major factor is just silly, its a minor special factor in SOME specials.


07 Jan 2013 04:03
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2759
Draugor: It seems like you did not read my actual suggestion earlier in the thread that I have been referring to since? I am not saying everyone should have equal stats at all, but that the combat averages could be the same for all races. [numbers removed]. Same average, but still different for each race.

The problem now is, like you say, goblins have average or above in three very important stats, and they get their biggest drawback in DIS and INT which isnt the most useful stats for most combat, as far as I know anyway. If we started by balancing the combat stats between the races, then we have come a long way I think.


07 Jan 2013 04:40
Profile
Myth

Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Posts: 1359
Location: Kristiansund, Norway
Well I dont think its a big surprise that Greneth is plain and simple talking out of his ass.

However I agree with the blueprint for race adjustments you are laying out here Draugor.
Maybe not with the numbers, but with the blueprint.
My opinion.. You could have one big bonus(max 20 points..) or two small bonuses(say max 10 points)
And that actually counts for ALOT
You will notice that if you play a race that has 2 or 3 points less in a stat modifier and compare it to the other how much it really is.
And then max the same amount in penalties..(freely divided)


Or go to the extreme.. Remove racial stat modifiers all together, and instead give each race their own special ability.

_________________
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.


07 Jan 2013 04:53
Profile
Myth

Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14
Posts: 1715
amberlee wrote:
Or go to the extreme.. Remove racial stat modifiers all together, and instead give each race their own special ability.



Suggest that again and I'm kicking you in the nuts.

Just make the differences smaller, we dont need to have one race that gets str and cone 200% faster than anyone else and another that gets dex 10000% faster than everyone else, its silly tbh


07 Jan 2013 05:14
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 03 Mar 2010 20:51
Posts: 2281
Location: Some old coffin
I have no idea why wizards suddenly feel it is okay to post numbers - even hypothetical ones - regarding stats. This must immediately stop.

Thread locked.
G.

_________________
Mmmmmm ... pie ...


07 Jan 2013 05:16
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.   [ 37 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software.