Balance & holiday wishes

[Makfly]

Its the holidays and a time for wishes. Therefore I'll go ahead and make a Genesis-wish
I really, really wish that the Administration of Genesis would take the time to clearly spell out their method and vision for achieveing a balance between the guilds in Genesis.

Half-truthes and contradicting information seems to flourish in the gap of ignorance, and I think it would do wonders for the game, to have some clearly state goals and methods to achieve them.
So, please, take the time to make some clear statements, even if it just that "we're working on this part, but haven't decided yet".


Now since this is the Suggestion Box, I will also provide a simple idea:

Code: Select all

The game have a long list of all abilities available in Genesis. (abilities also include things like <+5 levels of X-skill>)
All abilities have a set cost.
Certain combinations of abilities have an additional cost.
New abilities will be provided with a set cost by the Arch of Balance, that might be marginally higher at first, and lowered in a review after 1 year.

All occupational guilds take 20% tax from its members.
All occupational guilds provide 1000 points to spend on abilities.

All layman guilds take 10% tax from its members.
All layman guilds provide 500 points to spend on abilities.

All racial guilds take 2% tax from its members.
All racial guilds provide 100 points to spend on abilities.

Emotes have no cost.
Guildhall abilities, such as an in-house smith, stores etc. have a low cost.

Happy holidays!

[Kiara]

I second this wish. I am also getting more and more confused how balance is supposed to work. There are talks about rock, paper, scissors, but more complex. And rock, paper scissors where not all three sides are equal has been mentioned as system. We have had discussions about the role tax plays, and the PVP and PVE balance (which imho is different), and there is also often talks about guild vs guild balance. There's tons of different types of systems that has been mentioned both by mortals and wizards lately, and I personally feel more clueless than ever.

Yes, things should be mysterious, I know it's a Genesis thing. But _balance_ I see no need to keep mysterious.

[Zhar]

I was always wondering one thing and would like to take this opportunity and ask how players feel about it:

Do you think that total transparency would be good for balance/feedback?

As in, having an actual wiki page with lots of info there (quests, items, abilities, spells, maps), perhaps even including numbers... *shudder*
I see that a lot of MUDs and MMOs this days adopt this form of "knowledge base" so people are free to read on it, theorycraft based on this information and make conscious choices regarding their character progress.

I guess that "available to all" stuff should be transparent, but some things should remain a secret. Just curious what others think about it.

As an example of partial transparency I'd like to point you to the Discworld MUD site, where you can see some guild info and can even check how certain skills work:

http://discworld.imaginary.com/lpc/playing/guilds.html

If you click on a guild type there it will show you what skills various guilds of this type get and below that you can check how those skills work.

Example:

Name
_________________________________________________
chop - strike at someone with a large axe.

Syntax
_________________________________________________
chop <living> with <object>

Description
_________________________________________________
This command allows you to use a large axe or similar weapon to chop into someone.

Your ability in fighting.special.weapon determines your ability to prepare the attack, and your weapon skill determines the efficacy of your attack. It will cost you 35 fighting guild points to attempt to chop.

Example
_________________________________________________
> chop elf with axe
You prepare to chop the elf.

They don't reveal any numbers, but part of the implementation (ability cost, what skills does it use to determine success etc.). I think that such a thing would be a fine addition to our small world too.

I mean, in this day and age most older players already know practically everything (including wizinfo) and knowledge barrier only serves as detriment to possible new players. Let's be honest, who here hasn't come across any quest solutions, herb info, guild info, maps with secrets on them etc.? Legalization and transparency would only serve to reduce the "grey area" in my opinion. After all, we live in the Age of Information and not The Dark Ages.

[Makfly]

I've brought up the example of the Discworld MUD before. Back then it was to illustrate that succesful MUDs exist that actually have all quest solutions available to everyone in 2 forms, one just providing hints and one providing the complete solution.

I think Genesis in general could benefit from more openness, because all information like quest-solutions are already being shared or traded between players. That of course mean that the old guard have a vast advantage, compared to an actual newbie starting out Genesis. That is not to mention players that have or have had Wiz-friends and access wiz-info.

Anyways - In my suggestion above, I did not mean that the list of abilities should be openly available. I imagined it being for Wizard-eyes only still.

[Zar]

Zhar, Great post.

I support you on that. Lets move from Dark ages and maybe we will start a Renaissance era.

My 2cc:
I think that main guild internal information should be more clear:
What stats and skills guild specials/spells depend on. (I remember that I asked plenty of Calians what affects swarm until I met someone who definitely told me)

I also think that it will help to make guilds more logical (Like some spells are not effected by spells skills)

I praise for having quest orbs that helps to know what quests I've done or still haven't.
But they don't actually hint except (maybe) a starting point.
Questing is the hardest part of Genesis lifetime for many incomers. More hints would help them to stay.

Another important part is equipment
We have great crafting guild Smiths who can estimate weapons and armours but not everyone is there.
I don't think that additional knowledge base is really needed.
Although with addition of resistances and making them great part of the game, Smiths must be adjusted to be able to inspect these features of equipment.

There are some common skills that knowledge is seems to be known to a limited few:
Blindfighting, Sneak/Hide/Steal/Awareness, location sense/tracking

[Habiki]

Friendly reminder: our community began working on a related project about two years ago. I think this effort should be continued. I see that people are still visiting the site, but I'm not sure how much it's being updated still.

http://genesisquests.pbworks.com/

[Kiara]

I am all for a little more transparency. Not numbers. Never ever numbers. But basic info, presented in a Genesis thematic style.

Basically the stuff Syrk mentioned. Like for instance which stat contribute to how your guild special works. What stats really do. And similar stuff. Thing that are almost impossible to figure out in-game, but that some still just "know" through more illegal means.

Because currently only those with wiz info really knows this kind of stuff, and if everyone could gain some basic knowledge about which stat is good for what, etc, then I think we would both make things a little more even, and also hopefully see less need to cheat by using wiz chars or wiz friends to gain access to this data, and even complete source codes.

Although I dont think we need to overdo it. A big part of Genesis is that not everything is fully known. Anyone who has ever been in a spellcaster guild knows the importance of researching their spells. And this process I personally think is pretty fun, and it would simply not be as interesting if everything was fully known just by looking at some website.

Also... I gotta say it would suck if everyone could just read about how the mages spells work and how to counter them. I think if you want to know stuff like that you need to do what I do... the same thing people have always done. Research it. Most people before me havent shared what they've found out though. Still, I think some things should be left to discover, and shared, in game.

The main thing I think we could present some more info about is what stats do and how they affect spells and specials. That has always been a big mystery for me, and I dont think this particular mystery adds anything to the game... and more global stuff of course. Stuff that deals with what type of game this is. Like BALANCE, which is the original topic of this thread. I dont see why this would need to be a mystery either.

[Keltar]

Friendly reminder: our community began working on a related project about two years ago. I think this effort should be continued. I see that people are still visiting the site, but I'm not sure how much it's being updated still.

http://genesisquests.pbworks.com/

Thanks for that, great page! I wish I knew of it sooner. I wish there was a link to it on the official page.
Although the maps give out too much info. I think only the obvious exists should be mapped, the rest should be up for discovery.

But nevertheless the info on quests is great, I always found the quests to be obscure and hard to figure out.
This was always the most frustrating part of the game for me.
Especially with huge areas like ME, Terel, Krynn and what not, one had to map the majority of it first and then try to locate stuff, items, npcs.
Not many people have huge amounts of time on their hands for that, so such tips are very welcome.

That was before the quest orbs, with them it is easier to find the quests but still they are hard to figure out.
On a side note - a praise for making quests a flawless experience with the enchanter from Sparkle, I did not have problems with those at all.
It was a pleasure - they reminded me of the Tutori Isle - great experience