Death Penalty Opinions

[Amorana]

You and other large characters clearly love grinding.

You have no idea how I play Genesis apparently.

Well given that the only time I have been able to join you (despite repeated offers to assist) has been in a team with Yanus and Syrk for Terel Trolls and Faerun and my only other experiences involve you pulling large quantities of gear out of a pack... I guess I can only base it off of what I have seen.

Not to mention... you don't make myth without a good deal of grinding.

[Draugor]

You and other large characters clearly love grinding.

You have no idea how I play Genesis apparently.

Well given that the only time I have been able to join you (despite repeated offers to assist) has been in a team with Yanus and Syrk for Terel Trolls and Faerun and my only other experiences involve you pulling large quantities of gear out of a pack... I guess I can only base it off of what I have seen.

Not to mention... you don't make myth without a good deal of grinding.

Yanus, Syrk and Irk dont grind They bot

[Makfly]

Well given that the only time I have been able to join you (despite repeated offers to assist) has been in a team with Yanus and Syrk for Terel Trolls and Faerun and my only other experiences involve you pulling large quantities of gear out of a pack... I guess I can only base it off of what I have seen.

Not to mention... you don't make myth without a good deal of grinding.

Yanus, Syrk and Irk dont grind They bot

I don't think it is called botting but "investing" these days.

[Makfly]

The argument that no death penalty is bad for roleplaying is a connection I simply do not believe exist. I would really like to see some evidence, even anecdotal evidence, on this having any foundation in reality.

It exists. I've been involved in numerous of these situations since I've starting playing in Gen all those years ago. Your experience with humanity must be exceptional though, where individuals' behavior is not changed by whether or not there are any implications for actions

Your smarmy reply aside, I would still like to hear some examples of why a less harsh death penalty would have been bad for your roleplaying experiences.
I am asking because:

A: I have seen plenty of dedicated roleplaying sessions in games that did not have a very harsh death penalty
B: I cannot see why a harsh death penalty would suddenly make someone start to roleplay, roleplay better, or roleplay more. I find it hard to believe that someone would decide to engage in a roleplaying session with you because of a harsh death penalty.
Actually I think the person would engage in a roleplaying session with you regardless of the death penalty - Hence no real link between a harsher death penalty and the quality or quantity of roleplaying in a game.
C: We are not even talking about having NO consequences for ones actions. Actually in this trial period of no Xp-loss on death, there are still consequences for dying, as I listed above. Plus the discussion is not whether or not there should be ANY death penalty, but how harsh or lenient it should be.

Here I would actually argue that even with no Xp-loss on death, it would still not be a detriment to the quality or quantity of roleplaying.
Roleplaying is something that players willingly engage in with another player. It is not something you can force upon someone, if they are not willing to engage in it, and no amount of Xp-loss or even perma-death will make someone roleplay if they have no desire to do so.

As I also wrote earlier, I do believe that there may be other reasons for having a bit of a sting to death, but roleplaying are not one of them.
When I have been killed in Open World PvP in WoW, the fact that some asshole killed me in the middle of whatever I was doing, plus the minutes to run back to my corpse, was enough of a sting for me to be more careful not to get killed again.
In those cases I did not loose any Xp. I lost no equipment. I lost some time, plus maybe the thorium vein I was going to mine or whatever, but most of all I felt defeated by another player, and that emotional or psychological effect was enough for ensure that I was more careful in the future.
Maybe its just me that have experienced that, but I somehow doubt it.

[Mersereau]

Yanus, Syrk and Irk dont grind They bot

You have evidence all three of these people "bot"?

[Kiara]

Yanus, Syrk and Irk dont grind They bot

You have evidence all three of these people "bot"?

*slap Draugor*

Don't accuse people of botting here... how about flames? That topic always derails a thread, and it would be nice to keep this one on topic instead of locked.

[Greywolf]

I think changing the death penalty from an experience loss penalty to a time based recovery period is an incredibly good idea. It solves serious problems with the way PvP, death and size relate to each other in Genesis, is easily adjustable and scalable, gives smaller characters a brute advantage while recovering and makes exp grinding when recovering less efficient the larger you are (again, due to brute...I think).

Brilliant Idea!!

[Zhar]

Comparing Genesis to World of Warcraft or any other modern game isn't a good analogy. Those games have a paid staff to monitor and balance EVERYTHING. Genesis doesn't. Those games have hundreds of thousands of players. They are a business.

Barring a complete shutdown and recode of everything -combat, experience, quests, guilds, weapons, armours, rooms, commands, etc, etc- it isn't feasible to change things radically. It wouldn't be Genesis anymore either. Maybe some people want that.

But the people we "want to attract" in this grand "anniversary celebration" are the people who are actively playing these games.

I think that you should change this statement to "people who once actively played" those games. I don't believe that its possible to convert someone paying monthly subscription for their game for years, enjoying it immensely and being completely immersed in it.

We shouldn't focus on "stealing" (bad choice of words, but nothing else really suits here) other games' playerbase. It's rather about creating a niche and making it attractive enough for people to walk into and stay in it. Can't have a market for something when there's no demand. We must create the demand (or rather re-create it), which should be getting easier now that people quickly get disappointed with modern games and general direction the game market is taking. Also, the trend arises all over the world for niche, indie, alternative, non-mainstream stuff. Another thing to note is that some of the old games are now re-living their renaissance. Just look at the great success of sites like gog.com (where we should advertise I think), resurgence of competetive scenes in games like Warcraft II, Age of Empires II, all the remakes of old games that are being done etc. etc.

I just hope we won't miss our shot at this as I don't know how much of a time window of opportunity we have. There's been a lot of work done to improve, fix and enhance Genesis over the past couple of years. There is still work to be done. I think that there should be more guidance for new players that get out of the tutorial and into the real world, not really handholding but more precise directions on where to go and what to do next, since we don't have a wiki page or anything like that, but that's an entirely different topic alltogether.

Sorry for the offtopic, but I thought that addressing this is important.

[Amorana]

Comparing Genesis to World of Warcraft or any other modern game isn't a good analogy. Those games have a paid staff to monitor and balance EVERYTHING. Genesis doesn't. Those games have hundreds of thousands of players. They are a business.

Barring a complete shutdown and recode of everything -combat, experience, quests, guilds, weapons, armours, rooms, commands, etc, etc- it isn't feasible to change things radically. It wouldn't be Genesis anymore either. Maybe some people want that.

But the people we "want to attract" in this grand "anniversary celebration" are the people who are actively playing these games.

I think that you should change this statement to "people who once actively played" those games. I don't believe that its possible to convert someone paying monthly subscription for their game for years, enjoying it immensely and being completely immersed in it.

We shouldn't focus on "stealing" (bad choice of words, but nothing else really suits here) other games' playerbase. It's rather about creating a niche and making it attractive enough for people to walk into and stay in it. Can't have a market for something when there's no demand. We must create the demand (or rather re-create it), which should be getting easier now that people quickly get disappointed with modern games and general direction the game market is taking. Also, the trend arises all over the world for niche, indie, alternative, non-mainstream stuff. Another thing to note is that some of the old games are now re-living their renaissance. Just look at the great success of sites like gog.com (where we should advertise I think), resurgence of competetive scenes in games like Warcraft II, Age of Empires II, all the remakes of old games that are being done etc. etc.

I just hope we won't miss our shot at this as I don't know how much of a time window of opportunity we have. There's been a lot of work done to improve, fix and enhance Genesis over the past couple of years. There is still work to be done. I think that there should be more guidance for new players that get out of the tutorial and into the real world, not really handholding but more precise directions on where to go and what to do next, since we don't have a wiki page or anything like that, but that's an entirely different topic alltogether.

Sorry for the offtopic, but I thought that addressing this is important.

Not everything relates to WoW. He said "or any other modern game". My point is most people we are going to get aren't going to be people that Genesis is their first ever computer game. They're used to things that are much different. Taking some hints from those (what you allude to later as being more guidance friendly) isn't a bad thing. Also - Genesis lured me away from Everquest, so I don't agree.

[Zhar]

Don't get me wrong. Personally I hate all kinds of extended tutorials (although BoneCraft's was pretty epic), handholding and the like. Unfortunately I find all that necessary in Genesis, mostly because it isn't structured like most games, where you steadily progress to areas with tougher encounters, better gear etc. (even Morrowind had the main plot for the game, which nudged you in certain directions if you wanted). I think we should be taking ideas from games like that to be honest, since Morrowind is the closest I ever found in more "modern" games to Genesis. Full sandbox, you go where you please, multiple guilds to choose from (not restricting you from joining others), herbing, books, interaction and what not. This game has stolen good 3 months of my time back in the day. I would play it practically non-stop for so long. No other game to date (bar Genesis) has even come close. And it was singleplayer only.

I really wouldn't like Genesis to go down this way: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JohnMawh ... mpions.php