making quest solutions public!

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Do you think full quest solutions should be published?

yes!
19
56%
no!
7
21%
i don't care!
2
6%
there should be no quests at all (or qexp at least)!
6
18%
 
Total votes: 34

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 585
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

making quest solutions public!

Post by Kvator » 12 Sep 2014 20:09

Hi there!

After reading some stuff from newbie line in the game I would like to come back to the matter I've tried to raise once or twice before.
It seems that newbies have most troubles with all the syntax stuff from quests (I am not the most active newbie helper, so maybe Grampal or Alorrana could elaborate more on this) and really I don't see ANY reason for keeping this old rule (about quest solutions etc) alive nowadays.
First fact - EVERY 'old' player have quest files
Second fact - the gap between newbies and 'old' players is extremely huge here on Genesis
Third fact/assumption - without help from in-game friends, what can newbie achieve in what time? Adventurer after month/two? And he'll be still not even close in size to 'old players', he will then get pissed and choose other game (nowadays there are plenty to choose, you know)
Fourth fact - publishing quest solutions won't be a big, time-consuming project
Fifth fact (from my own experience) - making quests WITH solutions still help you to learn Genesis (that was the only thing I got when I started playing, no other help - I got hooked)

Really I can't understand why this old rule (from the times where there was no alternative in terms of online gaming) is still there? Why
ppl want to tell others what to do instead of givint them possibility to choose (I want to do it alone - FINE, i want to use solution - ALSO FINE, making quests is like playing adventure games - some use walkthroughs from the very beginning till the end of the game, some use them when they're stuck for some time, some are hardcore players who never use them - all can have fun this way or another)

I am starting the poll to see what you folks think about it ( I've seen some ppl arguing that elimination of quests is the best solution - I don't agree; in my opinion quest are vital and FUN part of the game - but I am adding this option to the vote as well).

Laurel

Re: making quest solutions public!

Post by Laurel » 12 Sep 2014 20:57

#deadhorse #beating

Ydred
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Posts: 237
Joined: 29 Nov 2013 02:53

Re: making quest solutions public!

Post by Ydred » 13 Sep 2014 02:12

My opinion is that they should be made public.

And that they should reduce the needed quests to get max qxps to about 250-275 of the approx 340 quests there are.

That would make quests important for those who like them but not so insanely important for those who dont.

I personally loathe questing.

Windemere
Expert
Posts: 286
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 05:37
Location: Winterpeg

Re: making quest solutions public!

Post by Windemere » 13 Sep 2014 05:05

There are numerous types of players in any fantasy RPG and, frankly, any game.

Games tend to gear themselves towards as many players as possible. I enjoy questing, for the most part, but sometime find it to get tedious. I'm more of an explorer who enjoys solving complex puzzles that take a bit of time and contemplation to figure out.

What I'd, personally, like to see is for people to not be penalized for not enjoying questing but rather have those who do be rewarded. One could argue they already are through the lessening of brute, but this does not resolve the initial issue of those not enjoying it not being penalized.

Questing certainly has its place. I think the quests in Genesis provide some of the most unique and interesting experiences outside of general RP and the lore coded in the realms/guilds. Still, rewarding for questing rather than penalizing for not is a venue I'd like to see.

As for quest docs, some quest need them, lets fix those, good quests that are true puzzles and can be figured out through logic and clues...lets keep paths out of those ones.

Windemere

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Cherek
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: making quest solutions public!

Post by Cherek » 14 Sep 2014 06:06

First of all, the rule against using quest solutions was removed many years ago.

As for making them official, well one purely logistical problem would be that the current solutions that exist aren't all completely accurate. The realm has changed quite a bit since most of these solutions were made. IF we were to publish such a thing on the official homepage or something you'd at least want them to be accurate, and also maintained so they're up to date. Considering the huge number of quests we have that would be a pretty big task I think.

As a mortal I probably used solutions to 2/3 of the quests and 1/3 I did without. I gotta say I enjoyed the 1/3 more even if it was not as quick and easy. But the reward from actually figuring it out was more rewarding for me than the XP from typing in commands while staring at a word doc.

As for new players, well... for Genesis to survive we need the new players to replace the old ones at some point. In a potential world where Genesis has 100 players online myths would, and should become, a much more rare sight. So the question is if it's even useful to try to help the potential new generation "catch up" in the quest solution + bot grind race. Is that really the route to go? I am not so sure about that.

I think it's better to let people discover Genesis in their own time, perhaps find things they enjoy _without_ being huge. Like we all once did too. And if they want quest solutions, they'll find them anyway. We did. I do not really see the benefit from putting it up on the official webpage, or somewhere else "official".

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cotillion
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Re: making quest solutions public!

Post by cotillion » 15 Sep 2014 16:57

If the quests are so boring players don't want to solve them then it should not be a requirement to do them.
Death to brutality!

Windemere
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 05:37
Location: Winterpeg

Re: making quest solutions public!

Post by Windemere » 15 Sep 2014 18:31

I think you make a good point Cherek,

While I think Cotillion was likely making his comment tongue in cheek (hard to tell on an online forum) I think there is merit to it.

We want to attract all kinds of players to the realms and this means being accommodating. You talk about wanting people to be able to discover Genesis the way we all did, which is valuable and important, but at present questing is a necessity in order to grow in the realms. You cannot just hunt and explore and kill, you MUST quest for your character to be viable.

That's challenging to do for some people and thus, we lose them when they find out they cannot enjoy the game the way they would like to. Hence my suggestion. Rather than having questing be a necessity, have it be rewarded separately. It could be through imbuements, quest only weapons that are accessed, a smithy that can be unlocked through questing, access to something else or simply experience for rapid growth over killing a bunch of stuff. Numerous ways for it to be viewed.

Brute is a way of forcing people to quest. Why do we want to force them to do anything. Lets reward them for exploring, questing, roleplaying, rather than forcing them to do it and making it a "chore."

Zar
Hero
Posts: 393
Joined: 21 Feb 2011 19:17

Re: making quest solutions public!

Post by Zar » 16 Sep 2014 12:40

Windemere wrote:I think you make a good point Cherek,

While I think Cotillion was likely making his comment tongue in cheek (hard to tell on an online forum) I think there is merit to it.

We want to attract all kinds of players to the realms and this means being accommodating. You talk about wanting people to be able to discover Genesis the way we all did, which is valuable and important, but at present questing is a necessity in order to grow in the realms. You cannot just hunt and explore and kill, you MUST quest for your character to be viable.

That's challenging to do for some people and thus, we lose them when they find out they cannot enjoy the game the way they would like to. Hence my suggestion. Rather than having questing be a necessity, have it be rewarded separately. It could be through imbuements, quest only weapons that are accessed, a smithy that can be unlocked through questing, access to something else or simply experience for rapid growth over killing a bunch of stuff. Numerous ways for it to be viewed.

Brute is a way of forcing people to quest. Why do we want to force them to do anything. Lets reward them for exploring, questing, roleplaying, rather than forcing them to do it and making it a "chore."
The only problem is that it requires enormous effort on creating this reward system and balancing progress after removing brute

Caw
Beginner
Posts: 15
Joined: 07 Feb 2014 18:12

Re: making quest solutions public!

Post by Caw » 16 Sep 2014 16:28

Usually I love to quest in most games I play. And when I first played Genesis back in the 90's I loved the quests. But over the years games have redefined what we expect from quests in games. I think our wizards of old relied on the community to work together and solve the quests and then aid other with tips and hints, most games now have simpler quests with built in hints.

In an ideal world I would love to see all the genesis quests remain secret but have them all reworked so that they were more intuitive and had built in hints from logical sources in the game, and had more flexibility in the syntax required. But this is unlikely to happen, it would require a skilled coder who was passionate about the project and had tons of spare time.

Baring that I think would love to see a combination of some of the ideals mentioned here already. Quest experience should max out at 1/2 to 2/3 of whats available from the current quests so that people arnt required to complete them all to max it out. And Brute should be adjusted so that with max QXP you hit Very Violent around Champ or so.

Any additional QXP after max could go towards unlocking a string of extra benefits like Windemere mentioned. Small comforts that would be very useful but not over powering. Unlock the ability to repair armour at all smiths, discount at the enchanter, extra transport options.

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Cherek
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: making quest solutions public!

Post by Cherek » 18 Sep 2014 03:32

Windemere wrote: Brute is a way of forcing people to quest. Why do we want to force them to do anything. Lets reward them for exploring, questing, roleplaying, rather than forcing them to do it and making it a "chore."
We are also "forcing" people to randomly slaughter hundreds of thousands of mostly innocent NPCs to grow in size, which, depending who you ask is a serious "chore" too. Much more so than questing if you ask me.:)

Personally I'd like to see a system where you can obtain a reasonable size either from questing alone, or from combat alone, or by mixing the two. So like Cotillion said, death to brutality.

But as always, someone has to be willing to make it happen, and have the knowledge. And convince Gorboth and others it's a good idea of course.:) But the quest system has obviously been discussed upstairs many times too and I think most wizards and mortals will agree that the current quest system is not always perfect, and that there are extremely hard and illogical quests present in the game. So yeah it's definitely an area that could be better.

But quest solutions made public? I dont know. I personally don't think it's logical to have the quest orb hint system, and then also just put up complete solutions on the web page. I think quest solutions are better off passed on from player to player as always. I mean that's generally how it does work in games. There's plenty of step by step guides how to solve almost every game if you google it, but it's rarely bundled with the game itself. If we put up quest solutions it's like we dont even believe in our game ourselves. Why would we make hundreds of quests and then provide the complete key to solving them? I am not so sure that'll make new players more interested. If I tried for example a new online adventure game that also had a step by step complete and exact solution, I am not so sure I would play. It would seem pretty pointless and without challenge?

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