Hello, new guy here.
I had a couple of suggestions about Genesis and how to market it to players like me, the younger generation that has never played text-based RPG's at all and I thought to put them here to see what you guys think about the matter.
One of the things that I enjoyed a lot was the magic map, the ability to see the area really lifts a lot of confusion on where to go and means you do not have to read the description everywhere to see where you are going, it has really kept me playing and I kind of try to avoid going to areas where it is not, this kind of visualisation is kind of taboo for the genre but it is a great addition to reveal information which quite hard to piece together for new players like me.
Visualising certain elements such as the inventory and would greatly add to the concept because glancing through a list of what I have can be quite a bother and rather tedious, I do not mean visualising as making fancy images for the items but more like having a list on the side with what you are carrying and whether you are almost overencumbered in text, it would remove a lot of clutter out of the ''primary command and storytelling box''. Same deal goes for the stats as refreshing the list after training some skills every time is rather tedious. The wallet, stats of your character and wear would also make great ''tabs'' next to the magic map, removing a lot of things which should be instantly visible and known to the player would greatly add to the experience and by keeping it in text still be loyal to the text-based RPG genre. Other than that, a clear visualisation of what you have an how you are progressing would certainly appeal to a lot of modern day MMO players, keeping their attention because there is clear progression, keep rewarding the player and they will continue playing.
The introduction of the game is rather long and tedious because of the 5 billion signs (hyperbole) which have to be read, I think a more natural progression would add help new players get started and feel like they are exploring the game and if they cannot come to realise what has to be done, a hint be shown to them if they type hint, in which case the sign would show up (maybe also in a sign tab, so you dont have to <read sign> every time). I just think a lot of the clutter and incredibly long texts have to be removed from the that primary box and put onto the side of the screen like the magic map. I know that it needs to maintain the essence of the genre but a little more catering to the younger generation (I am 22 and still too young to have experienced this) would certainly help in getting more new players into the game.
Other than that a few more modern-day synonyms for commands would be nice, like instead of get item, I tried loot item. Instead of south, I tried ''go south''. A bit more open-ended commands would certainly remove some confusion for newer players, if not forever in the game, at least in the start to try and get them hooked to the concept.
I have some more ideas regarding starting areas, marketing to the younger generation and such but they will have to come later as I have to go to work now. Thank you for reading and sorry if I am imposing, I want the game to keep it's essence but also appeal to more players because I think with a lot more active players and coming across people in your quests would greatly enhance the experience for everyone. I will give the rest of my suggestions later this week if you guys want. This was typed up pretty quick as I do not have a lot of time currently, I will gladly elaborate further if anything was vague.
See you,
- Ray
My two cents about Genesis
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- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
Re: My two cents about Genesis
Input from truly new player from a younger generation is EXACTLY what we need. I will eagerly await your other ideas, especially those about marketing since that's kind of my job!
And if you have thoughts on how to attract a new generation of people who want to develop the game, not only play it, that would be interesting to hear as well. I like many of the ideas you presented here, but as you probably know the game is developed on people's spare time, and we in the older generation seem to have less and less of that. A few young and hungry wizards with a lot of time to spare, who could make things like the ones you suggested happen, would perhaps be the best thing that could happen to Genesis in terms of making it more attractive to a new generation.
Anyway, please keep the ideas coming!
And if you have thoughts on how to attract a new generation of people who want to develop the game, not only play it, that would be interesting to hear as well. I like many of the ideas you presented here, but as you probably know the game is developed on people's spare time, and we in the older generation seem to have less and less of that. A few young and hungry wizards with a lot of time to spare, who could make things like the ones you suggested happen, would perhaps be the best thing that could happen to Genesis in terms of making it more attractive to a new generation.
Anyway, please keep the ideas coming!
Re: My two cents about Genesis
Ray - while I am an old player and not a wizard - I can also concur with Cherek here. Your post and whatever else of ideas you may have is exactly what we need. More please 
Lawful evil - conform or die.
Re: My two cents about Genesis
To further elaborate on the idea of giving the game a natural learning curve instead of a big bunch of signs which give all the information you need, I thought of making the start of the game a bit more dungeons and dragons style, which would also be more attractive to my generation (90s kids) as most of the old time and indie games played have such a feature where the player learns through good storytelling, look at super metroid, there a wall you cannot jump over no matter how hard you try... later you find a powerup which makes you jump higher and it instantly gives you a wall of similar height which you can easily jump over now, you think back and hey... I remember that one wall that I could not jump before, let's go back there! That sort of natural progression and guidance of the player without the player actually being told anything would help.
I think a start of the game with a dungeons and dragons style would help the player understand commands, lets say...
You're standing at the entreance of a room lit brightly with torches with a really big bad guy in front of you, he's facing the other way. Above him hangs a chandelier held up by a flimsy rope.
- Light arrow
- Shoot chandelier
You wake up in a prison cell, a guard is leaning against the bars of your cell, you see a key hanging from his belt.
- Steal key
> He would surely notice
- Choke guard
> The guard struggles as you squeeze his neck through the bars, slowly runs out of breath and goes unconcious.
- Grab key
- Unlock cell door
Give the player incentive to try and find out the commands themselves and create enough synonyms so that players are able to experiment for themselves. Instead of south, add a ''go south'' and a ''walk south'' and maybe even a ''head south'' for players to be able to really figure out these commands for themselves and feel like they are acccomplishing something. That is what this game needs a bit more of, accomplishment. Games like WoW reward you for every mob you kill with XP, money, items, achievement progress... that excessive amount of rewarding and progression needs to be copied in order to keep people hooked and more importantly: started.
Though I haven't seen this type of thing in genesis, I think it would add a lot to the experience to create puzzles like this, maybe ones that expand cross multiple rooms or even an entire island, the puzzle element is just a bit lacking in the game, it seems... like you're just trying to straightforwardly try to kill bad guys for items and it is lacking a couple of layers, these kinds of puzzles would be a great way to introduce players to the game and add some depth into the rest of it. Going through the orc camp next to sparkle I really noticed the repetition in the game and that tedium really needs to be broken aspecially in a starter area such as sparkle.
This may be breaking away from the feeling of the game a little but is that such a bad thing in regards to adding more depth? If not for the entirety of the game at least in the start to coax players into giving it a try.
I'll continue later as I am going to play some DotA2 with a friend now, thanks for the welcoming replies.
I think a start of the game with a dungeons and dragons style would help the player understand commands, lets say...
You're standing at the entreance of a room lit brightly with torches with a really big bad guy in front of you, he's facing the other way. Above him hangs a chandelier held up by a flimsy rope.
- Light arrow
- Shoot chandelier
You wake up in a prison cell, a guard is leaning against the bars of your cell, you see a key hanging from his belt.
- Steal key
> He would surely notice
- Choke guard
> The guard struggles as you squeeze his neck through the bars, slowly runs out of breath and goes unconcious.
- Grab key
- Unlock cell door
Give the player incentive to try and find out the commands themselves and create enough synonyms so that players are able to experiment for themselves. Instead of south, add a ''go south'' and a ''walk south'' and maybe even a ''head south'' for players to be able to really figure out these commands for themselves and feel like they are acccomplishing something. That is what this game needs a bit more of, accomplishment. Games like WoW reward you for every mob you kill with XP, money, items, achievement progress... that excessive amount of rewarding and progression needs to be copied in order to keep people hooked and more importantly: started.
Though I haven't seen this type of thing in genesis, I think it would add a lot to the experience to create puzzles like this, maybe ones that expand cross multiple rooms or even an entire island, the puzzle element is just a bit lacking in the game, it seems... like you're just trying to straightforwardly try to kill bad guys for items and it is lacking a couple of layers, these kinds of puzzles would be a great way to introduce players to the game and add some depth into the rest of it. Going through the orc camp next to sparkle I really noticed the repetition in the game and that tedium really needs to be broken aspecially in a starter area such as sparkle.
This may be breaking away from the feeling of the game a little but is that such a bad thing in regards to adding more depth? If not for the entirety of the game at least in the start to coax players into giving it a try.
I'll continue later as I am going to play some DotA2 with a friend now, thanks for the welcoming replies.
Re: My two cents about Genesis
This is amazingly good stuff, Rayo. Thanks.
I like very much the idea of adding a "puzzle" element to the game to break up the tedium of the grind-all-day norm. The thing to do would be to find a way to create this as a thing that naturally occurs throughout the game, I think, as this is the only meaningful way to implement it into a game that is already filled with ten thousand rooms of content. So ... how do you implement a "puzzle drop" that can spawn in any area? How do you make it fun and something people would want to bother with?
G.
I like very much the idea of adding a "puzzle" element to the game to break up the tedium of the grind-all-day norm. The thing to do would be to find a way to create this as a thing that naturally occurs throughout the game, I think, as this is the only meaningful way to implement it into a game that is already filled with ten thousand rooms of content. So ... how do you implement a "puzzle drop" that can spawn in any area? How do you make it fun and something people would want to bother with?
G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...
Re: My two cents about Genesis
Time for blasphemy.
Well I would actually think implimenting this sort of thing and other features which I have in mind and may come up with in the future for modernizing the game a bit and appealing to my generation as.... rebooting the entire game and starting out from a much smaller area. See it as this: You start out genesis again with a way smaller area, lets say 2000 rooms and once players are getting close to ending it, bring out monthly or two-monthly content updates with like 500-800 rooms more with rooms that are updated. You can keep the same cities and maps and such but give people a chance to re-explore a revamped version of (whatever this world is called) instead of diving head first into a 20 years established game with very aged fragments. This way the entire game is updated and any parts which seem kind of iffy and repetative can be rewritten a little bit while still maintaining the original feeling. I do not like stepping into MMORPG games that are already going on for years and years because it feels like I have missed out on a lot and do not know what the other players are talking about, like theres a border between us. Recreate the game in stages and give new players a chance to explore everything before releasing the next bit of content, this would also help bring players together in areas.
Look at other MMO's with new expansions, people crowd around the new areas or continent while there still remain a few players in the other areas, this gives players a common questing area instead of attempting to quest on 50 different islands, you will not come across another soul, chances are bigger of winning the lottery. Recreate the game with a heavy emphasis on quality, story, puzzles and this game will become massive I reckon.
With the right UI (inventory, magic map, skill list, player chat, character sheet, encyclopedia, wallet, health-experience-fatigue bars on the side) this game will see amounts of players rise with ease, given the right marketing techniques are used and another few tricks which will get people hooked to this game until the end of time!
But hey, I'm just a kid with little experience in the game, I do not mean to impose.
Well I would actually think implimenting this sort of thing and other features which I have in mind and may come up with in the future for modernizing the game a bit and appealing to my generation as.... rebooting the entire game and starting out from a much smaller area. See it as this: You start out genesis again with a way smaller area, lets say 2000 rooms and once players are getting close to ending it, bring out monthly or two-monthly content updates with like 500-800 rooms more with rooms that are updated. You can keep the same cities and maps and such but give people a chance to re-explore a revamped version of (whatever this world is called) instead of diving head first into a 20 years established game with very aged fragments. This way the entire game is updated and any parts which seem kind of iffy and repetative can be rewritten a little bit while still maintaining the original feeling. I do not like stepping into MMORPG games that are already going on for years and years because it feels like I have missed out on a lot and do not know what the other players are talking about, like theres a border between us. Recreate the game in stages and give new players a chance to explore everything before releasing the next bit of content, this would also help bring players together in areas.
Look at other MMO's with new expansions, people crowd around the new areas or continent while there still remain a few players in the other areas, this gives players a common questing area instead of attempting to quest on 50 different islands, you will not come across another soul, chances are bigger of winning the lottery. Recreate the game with a heavy emphasis on quality, story, puzzles and this game will become massive I reckon.
With the right UI (inventory, magic map, skill list, player chat, character sheet, encyclopedia, wallet, health-experience-fatigue bars on the side) this game will see amounts of players rise with ease, given the right marketing techniques are used and another few tricks which will get people hooked to this game until the end of time!
But hey, I'm just a kid with little experience in the game, I do not mean to impose.
Re: My two cents about Genesis
This would apply to new players I'm hoping? Those that have played for years would not be to happy about having the world shrunkRayo wrote:Time for blasphemy.
Well I would actually think implimenting this sort of thing and other features which I have in mind and may come up with in the future for modernizing the game a bit and appealing to my generation as.... rebooting the entire game and starting out from a much smaller area. See it as this: You start out genesis again with a way smaller area, lets say 2000 rooms and once players are getting close to ending it, bring out monthly or two-monthly content updates with like 500-800 rooms more with rooms that are updated. You can keep the same cities and maps and such but give people a chance to re-explore a revamped version of (whatever this world is called) instead of diving head first into a 20 years established game with very aged fragments. This way the entire game is updated and any parts which seem kind of iffy and repetative can be rewritten a little bit while still maintaining the original feeling. I do not like stepping into MMORPG games that are already going on for years and years because it feels like I have missed out on a lot and do not know what the other players are talking about, like theres a border between us. Recreate the game in stages and give new players a chance to explore everything before releasing the next bit of content, this would also help bring players together in areas.
ALso, those kind of updates would most likelly require massive coding by the wizards, not sure any of them have time for the amount of time it would need. They are currently embarked on a rather massive recode of the guilds, that has take years so far and looks to take even more years, and believe me some of the guilds are in a DIRE need of recoding... *cough* kenders *cough* The same problem with having a border between the new and old have always been there. I remember when I started back in -00 or something, I didnt know my ass from my head in the game, and got omgwtfpwned by a moronic troll
I'd rather code warnings and make a much more elaborate storysystem via the newbie pin "You'r pin glows warm as you enter an area that you have never explored before, perhaps you should try focusing on the new area the pin has" *exa pin, focus calia* "blabla calian warriors, blabla wankers blabla etc etc" would show up, a brief history and perhaps explanation on what to find here. Also perhaps a brief GENESIS history lesson, not just the lore so to speak, but "This is where Cherek got his goody two shoes ass kicked by the awesome Monica, what a fight it was, Cherek cried like a baby the entire fight" *tease cherek* I'm quite sure there are players that would be interested in doing the story element if the wizards would create the code frame. This would lead to people new to the game not feeling completely lost when they enter a new area, perhaps a slight warning when small "Entering here seems like a bad idea as you can smell troll waste about" or somethingA big problem I feel is that to find information a new player either has to find a library, and doing that when you're 100% new is a bitch or find another player, and with people not beeing to helpfull today, with a selected few beeing exceptions, thats a bitch aswell.
Re: My two cents about Genesis
I do not know how much effort goes into the code of the game or how long a project like that would take, I am just here to share some ideas and hope you guys can use it towards making the game more popular and possibly adding some elements (I am selfish I know) that would hook me into the game some more as well as others. The world is pretty massive as it is right now but see a possible reboot as a way for players to re-explore the areas they have in the past in a new light, with new systems and added depth to make them truly memorable. One thing I thought of when you said ''you do not think its a good idea because you smell troll waste'' is... I tried to swim across a river and my character was too cowardly to do so, the starting areas and other places I have felt rather restricted due to the incompetence of my character. I think it would be more fun to explore and make mistakes for myself. There is a river > swim across > you feel like this is too much of a task for you > swim across anyway > you drown, a little bit of an ability to make mistakes and certain areas where it would actually work out... would add a lot too I think. Give rewards to the risktakers by putting something cool on the other side of the river and punish them sometimes while the safe guys are rewarded by taking another path and not taking the chance of death.
A reboot or whatever could also be done beside the game that is already active, maintain what exists right now and create a 2.0 beta version next to it (marketed as ''new and improved'' to cater to people), in which case the long-time players can still enjoy the game until they feel the world of the new becomes awesome enough to swap onto the other version.
A reboot or whatever could also be done beside the game that is already active, maintain what exists right now and create a 2.0 beta version next to it (marketed as ''new and improved'' to cater to people), in which case the long-time players can still enjoy the game until they feel the world of the new becomes awesome enough to swap onto the other version.
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Greneth
Re: My two cents about Genesis
Highly doubtful a reboot will ever happen, it was suggested and very few seemed for it, I personally think a reboot and closing of guilds/areas isnt a half bad idea. Least this would force interaction. Lots of what youre suggesting has been suggested before guess it takes someone new and not old to say it for people to think about it more. The UI was a great idea, that could be cleaned up quite a bit.
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Creed
Re: My two cents about Genesis
I believe that at least 95% of the current players would stop, if you deleted all, and tried over..
But what you are suggesting is not a reboot.. you seem to want a completely different game?
I personally look at things with the glasses on that shows me the things that I like, instead of seeing all the things that I don't like.
So.. instead of talking about all the things you think should be changed, it would be nice to know which things in the current game that you like, and what it is that keeps you around?
I noticed how much you talked about making it more obvious how ou progress, and also some want/need to get everything more visualised. I personally think that is rather "stupid", since the basis of it all is text and not pictures.
Also.. if we change this to be "graphic", it will become a shitty comparison to any visual game.
What was and still is the best thing about Genesis, in my eyes, is the ability to immerse yourself in your character, making it more or less possible to do anything you want to as that character. This is not possible in WoW, for example, as you have the option to make perhaps 100 coded visual emotes..
But I am one of those old ones, so it seems my words doesn't mean as much.. :p
But what you are suggesting is not a reboot.. you seem to want a completely different game?
I personally look at things with the glasses on that shows me the things that I like, instead of seeing all the things that I don't like.
So.. instead of talking about all the things you think should be changed, it would be nice to know which things in the current game that you like, and what it is that keeps you around?
I noticed how much you talked about making it more obvious how ou progress, and also some want/need to get everything more visualised. I personally think that is rather "stupid", since the basis of it all is text and not pictures.
Also.. if we change this to be "graphic", it will become a shitty comparison to any visual game.
What was and still is the best thing about Genesis, in my eyes, is the ability to immerse yourself in your character, making it more or less possible to do anything you want to as that character. This is not possible in WoW, for example, as you have the option to make perhaps 100 coded visual emotes..
But I am one of those old ones, so it seems my words doesn't mean as much.. :p
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