With spells like that, there would be no use for the minstrels.

-Bromen
Former Minstrel of the Dawn

as i mentioned rangers do already have nightvision so giving that to valar would be worse just leave the glow how it is it is still useful to non rangers as a free torch. and to rangers as a ok im leading somone around light (in which case said ranger is not stealthed anyhow) minstrels do have a team buff bravado and they are layman which is why i thought it would be nice for heralds to as well. i figured vision on others was the least offencive as you can acomplish the same effect by passing out minnitkas. but whatever fits the theme.

the heralds already do kinda have the structure suggesed the earth spell calls on the earth valar ect...
but yes continuing on this theme is a good idea.

i love the planting idea... (sadly it would be a better idea for gardeners and the gardener find would be cool for heralds)

if we are SUPPOSED to be like the gandalf/radagast/saramon you could look at what kind of minor powers/messegers they used.
radagast would be valar/ranger gandalf Valar/monk(kaheda not DO) saramon valar/elemental cleric(he seemed more blasty and his occ was ok with him going untrustworthy) just guesses here...


Eagles: .. check... though those were more of a hearthstone that brought him and his party to a start point chosen by gandalf
(which was why they couldnt just fly eagles off to mt doom.... but they could use them to go home.)

gandolf more often used stuff like butterflies(bugs) as messengers. radagast has bunnies and squirrels...(rabbit sled!)

he had the you can not pass move which was more of a tanking look at me move.(a bit op for a layman but that was why i said he probibly had monk(kaheda) as his occ)

pyrotecnics and theatrics - this fits well with glow, voice, and emoty things possibly a flash blind no damage move.

heals/cleanses this is often why heralds are thought of as ranger(lite)
heals/rests are awsome but people will default to the most powerful heal/cleanse available unless it has a side advantage
like raises your regen as if you were stuffed/soaked. or slight con buff similar to cladina. or maybe it just uses less mana
or has a weak combination of rest and heal at one time... of course the life magic effects as is make it ideal for fighter occs

the cleanse is more of a poison resist than it is a true cleanse which does mean there could be some synerges if its used before a rangercleanse but it does make is a tad less useful as a primary cleanse. especially since there is a potion that does similar for no mana. maybe if the cleanse was worked into thier heal(when they used the double herb) cause honestly who bothers to cast a heal and not use it at full power unless the full power was more of a utility(situational) thingy.

most of this is just brainstorming.

minstrels do not use standard magic skills they use sing/play and they get a ton of emotygoodness
they got a built in club worth of content. id still be a minstrel if it wasnt so awkwards draging my harp around through the bushes and trees of ME.

also minstrels do have a team buff (bravado) and a damage power(vox) in addition to a heal light ect
necromancers have a nightvision, a scry, but that doesnt invalidate other laymans. all laymans have rp value as well
minstrell are good for people trying to be more bardish, heralds are more clericy, EW are more druidy, sure we will have some overlap but it doesn't lessen the other options.

Good suggestions!

Nightvision can easily be obtained by anyone via Herbs so this being occupational only is abit old fashion;) Nightvision for occ guilds can have additional benefits.

Since the limit of herb consumtion has rendered stat herbs quite useless there are opportunities to improve this here.
Tulkas: enhance the effect of astaldo, tyelka, tuo(x4 perhaps) making the herb glow or something

Other possibilities:
Namo: fear/weaken undead (bye bye Morrison:)
Ulmo: breath under water( again we have means for anyone to obtain this effect)
Irmo: communicate with other valars and maybe Rangers
Nessa: evade hits (visable aura)
Manwe: judge evil, some kind of special with strength depending on align of opponent:)

The herb growth thing is an excellent idea but i would rather see that as a gardener perk

Edit: it would be nice though if the ranger abilities and skills don't overlap. There are few good layman options for Rangers

Rangers already got that, Chanele ;)

Ok, after discussion with a few individuals and reading this thread, this is what is shaping up:

- Spells will be based on the Valar. Meaning, each Valar will have one or more spells associated with them.
- At any time, a Herald can choose a subset of the Valar to obtain a subset of the spells. Changing the spell set may incur guild-stat costs. The whole purpose of this is to build more into the Heralds, but allow Heralds to be flexible to work with different guilds.
- There will be a PvP specific spell that will be unique to the Heralds
- There will be a herb planting spell that will be unique to the Heralds
- There will be a Resist Evil spell that will be unique to the Heralds (defensive)
- There will be an at-will offensive spell
- There will be a spell where one can return to the Herald home location. Thinking of making this into an Eagle that you ride home.
- Some of their current spells will be removed (unused and not valid in today's balance picture)
- The rest of their spells will be adjusted for balance to today's standard, including but not limited to things like making the Herald messenger something that can be used indoors.

Nothing is locked in stone yet, of course. Thoughts?

Are Necros up after Valar? :D :D

Yes, they are. We're going to finish up the rest of the layman casters.

When it comes time for that I'd like to be a part of the process if possible since I'm the only one who's stuck it through with that guild over the years. Hijack over. Carry on

I think it sounds great!

You said current abilities will be adjusted to todays balance standard, will some of them be removed? Or just balanced and associated with different Valars?

Yes, some will be removed. The least frequently used ones and also the peace spell.