Non-flamey Size Discussion

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Kas
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Kas » 11 Jun 2016 20:57

I would probably take a look at how brute scale, and/or how to reach the questxp cap quicker.

Easier for smaller people to grow and "close in" to the bigger guys.
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Greneth

Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Greneth » 11 Jun 2016 21:27

I dont think it needs to be as exaggerated as a week or few days and boom, max level.

And maybe its time to re-evaluate the Elite NPC sizes so that you dont fall into that lull of lets get this, this, this... and instead it turns into lets get a team and see if we can get this. That would also bring the quality back down rather then the need for better equipment to be created. Have the risk equal the reward.

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Ody
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Ody » 11 Jun 2016 23:38

Is anyone asking for it to be super easy? No. Is anyone asking for it to be a day or two of grinding and you're a myth? Uhm..no. What we're asking for is that stats and levels be redone so that it's easier to get there after let's say six months of work. No one is asking to be made a myth over night. That takes away the fun of it. What we're saying is that at the present time growing is so hard that it's not fun. What we want is for it to be a bit more realistic. A cap so that no one gets to myth +930300303 fantas and it being easier to get to a level where you can compete. Genesis is a PvP game at the moment. And I'll admit I'm in a PvP guild. I don't mind PvP. It's a lot of fun when you're more evenly matched. But Myth vs Hero isn't fun. It may be fun for that myth, but what does that imply about a person?
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Ydred
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Ydred » 12 Jun 2016 00:03

It may be fun for that myth, but what does that imply about a person?
It implys nothing bad. I remember being in teams with Nikiel chasing Monika in Kalaman. And she losing. It is two factions going against each other. I remember goodies laying waste to AA bunks. I remember lots of things that imply nothing about the person. Perhaps about the RP of the character sure. But what you speak of is something that if the person cheated (usually with wiz help) to 'win' then sure that says alot about the person due to the meta nature of it. But Stern forcing some knight into pure submission in the knights own guild hall is not about Sterns Master but the character.

And you have no idea what max quest will do to help you. And it isnt to many fans to myth. I can tell you within 4 fans exactly how many fans it is to myth from expert. And the four fans difference is merely dependant on how you run your stats. You can beat my number also by joining low tax guilds. But not by much really. So no, I dont see your point and this game would be boring as ever chasing around all the same size guys. You just want it easy and like to pretend you dont. I started a new guy and got to be one of the biggest players in game in less time than you played on your guy. Mostly cause I know how to quest. I wasnt capped on him either. So it is possible to do what I did too especailly if it was easier for new players to cap quest.

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Cherek
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Cherek » 12 Jun 2016 01:02

You're one of the most extreme power grinders in the game Ydred, but most new players are not like you. For good and for worse.:) Most players will never make Myth. Ever. They quit long before. Now, everyone does not have to become myths of course, but we lose most of our new players long before they reach hero actually.

And I think it IS a problem that it's very hard for the new and old generation to play together. Be that in PVP or in teams, since the size differences are so great and will stay that way for a long time. Realistically, no new player will reach myth several years of playing. None has come even remotely close so far, despite us getting thousands of new players the last 1.5 year. The most successful new players reach hero in about a year, and that's only a handful of players. And hero still means you are ant-sized compared to many old players. Some feel this is how it should be, if you have played a long time you should have a huge advantage. Maybe? Depends, like I said, on what type of game we want. For free for all PVP it's probably not great?

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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Ydred » 12 Jun 2016 01:37

For me if you turn the game into a hard cap after 20yrs of it not being, well that is why I stuck around in some form for 20yrs. So I will probably leave.

No biggie to me. I have thought about this alot and my favorite aspect of Genesis has always been that size can be achieve by anyone with time. If that changes it changes alot of what I care about so cya.

And I never had an issue when Monika was greatly bigger than me. I found it thrilling. But like I said, I am one of those who find pvp interesting even if I lose. And probably why I went evil cause so many there are so like minded. Goodies quibble over nonsense (imho) and never plan out anything. Evils just make shit happen. If you remove all pvp well you sort of also kill all RP between factions. Or well most of the evils I know arent going to enjoy this. But hell maybe you want all evils gone. Then you will have all the non pvp RP you want etc. It may not be that bleak for sure. Avatar will stay :) And I love his RP, but it isnt enough for this camper to stay. Genesis is way to one deminsional as it is. It lacks so much that other games have. But it has growth. World PvP. RP (way beyond any graphic game though I was in some very RP oritened guilds in MMOs they lack so much that genesis has there so it is a huge plus (for me something about the image not being defined except within my own head is very inspiring). But alas not enough for me to stay if you hard cap it as there is nothing I find fun when I project day after day after day of doing it. I made 200k gold and could easily have made more but that grind isnt fun. I RP with many. And well I grow. I absolutely hate gear camping but I do it with the best of them for sure. But I have other things that keep my interest. Take growth away and for me ... I just see boredom. haha No loss though. It might bring you and the admin the goodie world I think you want due to how easy it would be to keep causual players. Just my opinion though. Not sure if it is right but I do know this after gaming allmost 40yrs of gaming (yes I was playing Pong at age 6 in 1976) I know what I like and what you are saying is not that for sure. I might try to hang on, mind you, as I have an intense love/hate relationship with geneiss. But I bet I lose when my daughter finds me doing other stuff and we get back to more fun on the ps4 and other things (I tried to get her into genesis but well it failed (sad too can you imagine with my grind skills having a tagalong :) [myth++] stat would be possible!)) oh well anyway :)

Anyway enjoy that game cause it isnt the one I signed up for. Hopefully you dont lose all the old players. But I wont (probably 95%) stay.

Got to step on someones toes. If it is mine, I hold no ill will. Do what you must but some lines I will just find uninteresting.
Last edited by Ydred on 12 Jun 2016 01:59, edited 1 time in total.

Greneth

Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Greneth » 12 Jun 2016 01:47

Ydred wrote:
It may be fun for that myth, but what does that imply about a person?
It implys nothing bad. I remember being in teams with Nikiel chasing Monika in Kalaman. And she losing. It is two factions going against each other. I remember goodies laying waste to AA bunks. I remember lots of things that imply nothing about the person. Perhaps about the RP of the character sure. But what you speak of is something that if the person cheated (usually with wiz help) to 'win' then sure that says alot about the person due to the meta nature of it. But Stern forcing some knight into pure submission in the knights own guild hall is not about Sterns Master but the character.

And you have no idea what max quest will do to help you. And it isnt to many fans to myth. I can tell you within 4 fans exactly how many fans it is to myth from expert. And the four fans difference is merely dependant on how you run your stats. You can beat my number also by joining low tax guilds. But not by much really. So no, I dont see your point and this game would be boring as ever chasing around all the same size guys. You just want it easy and like to pretend you dont. I started a new guy and got to be one of the biggest players in game in less time than you played on your guy. Mostly cause I know how to quest. I wasnt capped on him either. So it is possible to do what I did too especailly if it was easier for new players to cap quest.
You're an experienced player who not only knows the tips and tricks but the syntaxes as well, one who has the patience because he knows what it takes. You're an experienced mudder who has seen the mud format and has been around for those pen and paper days. How most stats work and generally what an old school RPG entails. These newbies generally dont have ANY of that experience or knowledge.

Let's say the Harry Potter thing attracts some new people in the promotion tab, who've never played an RPG, dont know what stats are and the only elf they know is a Dobby. I mean do you even realize the amount of knowledge that you have saved in that head of yours that puts you so far beyond any other newbie that it would take them years to catch up. Unless they were just diehard questing fanatics that hit that cap then found someone to drag them around. We've had one person like that and she knows next to nothing about game mechanics, knows very little about maps, areas, PvP. She knows quests but hasnt hit that cap, knows where to grind but cant lead a team there and still in one year she is only on the verge of Champion.

Thats not a realistic scenario is the problem. Most of these players have very limited Mud/Telnet/Scripting experience or are hearing about it for the first time, they have no idea why they cannot get key instead of get key from box. They dont know what a trigger is, or what #read 1 means. There is a ton of shit to learn, we dont realize it at all because its second hand to us. Its like speaking our native language we just know it. We've done it for so many years we forget just how long it took to gather all that knowledge.

Sit and watch the ntell line, for the most part its filled with nothing but syntax questions. For me its common sense to examine everything in the room and read through all descriptions, look for some little hint. Most of them type look and wonder what the hell you mean by examine. The fragment is another example, if I had a nickel for everytime I read the question... "How do I find what piece is missing on the statue?" I would be rich. But you tell them anyways well you search and it will tell you,"I searched and found nothing?" search the statue, "Ok I searched it but how do I put it on it just keeps saying 'What?' when I type put on fragment?" well if you examine the fragment it tells you what to do "So I examined the fragment and keep typing attach/connect but its not working" type connect fragment to statue. "Well why isnt this stuff explained better?" That is their thought process and you want them to keep up with your pace of completing all quests and grinding non-stop to reach Myth in less then 130 days? When you've been around since the 90's? Not even factoring in peoples time frames, you're on A LOT everyone else may not be able to spend 5+ hours a day on this game. And against quests that have syntaxes that fool even experienced players? Syntaxes have got a lot better due to the efforts of players reporting and some wizards too yet some still find their way to annoy you.

It has very little to do with an easy mode and more to do with bringing the game beyond years and years worth of grinding. I remember it wasnt too long ago that some of these older players JUST hit Myth who had been around since the 90's. They were stuck in the Champion-Legend realm for years and years. Then the quest orbs came out and with everyones experience Myths started flying out like hot cakes. The only thing to go by back before those orbs was the quest document that was hush hush because people actually did fear getting caught and whatever danish/swedish translation txt you could get your hands on. These are things that need to be taken into account when trying to calculate the growth of a new generation in this game. Just because you can do it does not make it the standard.

Its not that its too difficult to quest or grind, both can be done. Its the learning process in which one who truly has no idea has to go through to be able to quest and grind effectively. Thus a change really does need to be made to either increase the rate of which these newbies grow and or put a cap to allow for people to catch up, I vote for both. Its just got to be done, no new player wants to play a game where they cannot even have a chance at being the best. For people who want to reach that peak, the elite, the number one spot. There is not a single true newbie that can accomplish this without years of grinding and hoping people like Irk quit logging in.

So in all seriousness why is it ok to promote a game in which were basically straight up telling a newbie they can never be number 1, maybe number 20 but definitely not number 1 unless those guys quit grinding? Do you tell your kids or will you when they play sports even if they are horrible at them that they can never be first string or wont ever win the championship because there is someone who started before them and until that kid stops playing they will just have to accept it? And yet you want this game to grow and newbies to come join us arms wide open and have a blast. This is why were getting lots of traffic but unable to to hold onto these players. You're getting feedback from current newbies right now, in this very thread. And your only comeback is... you just want easy mode....

Wheres that head banging on a wall emote at?

Ydred
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Ydred » 12 Jun 2016 02:15

You're getting feedback from current newbies right now, in this very thread. And your only comeback is... you just want easy mode....

Wheres that head banging on a wall emote at?
Not sure, I wont bang my head against the wall. I didnt when I was playing and there were 3 logged in the game (me and 2 wizards). And I wont now. If they change it to the nonsense you propose I doubt I stay around long.

The world changes. No biggie to me. The dead who die first always lose the battle of words to the living. In this case, my ways might be the words of a dying player and my leaving my death, so you guys can dance on my corpse and sing sweet lullabies about my demise if you wish, but I find this type of game you think of boring and worthless. And yes I think you want easy mode. There are many casual games out there, why make this one I have enjoyed for almost 2 decades so different? Cause you out number me and those like me? Anyway it is same reason WoW jumped the shark for me after LichKing. I came back the 2nd expansion after. Joined my same solid guild who I assisted in downing the LichKing and it was even better .. easier due to variable sized raids. And I had less fun. It wasnt a challenge anymore and was trite. So yeah, sorry, for me the easy you ask for is me banging my head against a wall of boredom.

And as far as the new not getting to number 1, I doubt I ever do either. And it never deterred me. These young ones are all such wussies I think. Old man get the fuck off my lawn rant. Probably as dismissive as you are of my hard work I did in getting where I am after 2 decades of playing a game. This game kept me intereested for that long ... and I have never been the top guy. I just dont think it will interest you new guys that long. But it will me for another few decades if it stays as it is.

Greneth

Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Greneth » 12 Jun 2016 02:39

Ydred wrote:
You're getting feedback from current newbies right now, in this very thread. And your only comeback is... you just want easy mode....

Wheres that head banging on a wall emote at?
Not sure, I wont bang my head against the wall. I didnt when I was playing and there were 3 logged in the game (me and 2 wizards). And I wont now. If they change it to the nonsense you propose I doubt I stay around long.

The world changes. No biggie to me. The dead who die first always lose the battle of words to the living. In this case, my ways might be the words of a dying player and my leaving my death, so you guys can dance on my corpse and sing sweet lullabies about my demise if you wish, but I find this type of game you think of boring and worthless. And yes I think you want easy mode. There are many casual games out there, why make this one I have enjoyed for almost 2 decades so different? Cause you out number me and those like me? Anyway it is same reason WoW jumped the shark for me after LichKing. I came back the 2nd expansion after. Joined my same solid guild who I assisted in downing the LichKing and it was even better .. easier due to variable sized raids. And I had less fun. It wasnt a challenge anymore and was trite. So yeah, sorry, for me the easy you ask for is me banging my head against a wall of boredom.

And as far as the new not getting to number 1, I doubt I ever do either. And it never deterred me. These young ones are all such wussies I think. Old man get the fuck off my lawn rant. Probably as dismissive as you are of my hard word I did in getting where I am after 2 decades of playing a game. This game kept me intereested for that long ... and I have never been the top guy. I just dont think it will interest you new guys that long. But I will me for another few decades if it stays as it is.
So because youve played longer the game needs to cater to your specific needs instead of thinking whether you will once again be the only one logged in when another 20 years go by? Whose going to fix bugs that pop up if in 20 years none of the wizards are around? You going to code for you and 10 others? Thats where you picture this game in the future?

Should Mercade, Cot, Varian, Nerull, Cherek, Mirandus, Gorboth, Petros, Finwe all decide they are burnt out and enough is enough. Do you have the people to come fill those shoes?

Though me and Hektor will argue semantics till we both want to strangle each other. This game is much like a business. People grow old, if no one wants to come work for you the business dies. If you cannot bring in new clientele, the business dies.

Youre getting feedback from some of those new clients, all of which say the same thing and have have the same trend. Hero and quit, dont like the gap and grind. And you ignore them in favor of your own personal greed and wants.

You say the game will be easier when by making everyone smaller and readjusting NPCs to be more difficult would prevent someone like you from soloing nearly every creature in it. The line of thinking just isnt adding up.

It may not be a subject everyone wants to think of but people we are getting old. Some of us older then others. Without new blood in the game, the game will die. If you find your self importance worth more then the future of a game that brought you such great times then theres nothing left to discuss. No ones asking Genesis to not stay true to its core of an old school rpg. Whats being asked is to level the playing field and make the game once again challenging through other means then grind for years.
Last edited by Greneth on 12 Jun 2016 02:48, edited 1 time in total.

Ydred
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Ydred » 12 Jun 2016 02:45

I said nothing about it catering or not to my needs. It is not the case that I shall play a game I do not enjoy. That is all I said.

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