Suggestion of additional rules to Player Killing

[Draugor]

But they killed people in wars, which is not the same as random kills.

"War" on the entire mud They killed randoms for just walking by aswell. Minor slights (or just standing in the same room) was seen as an excuse to lay siege to entire guilds etc, so yea, a rule kinda feels needed

[Kas]

So, this thread is about suggestions about maybe culling or regularing pvp/warfare, except it doesn't have any concise ones beyond abstract complaints and potential strawmen, borderlining whining as if potentially being afraid of possible repercussions due to something something someone did to something, or something + something else.

What about some actual suggestions that would add to the current rules of pvp and warfare?

Let me start: In order to conduct a war, some guild or person must Declare the state of war vs someone or some guild for it to actually be valid.

[Greneth]

Trying to put a band-aid on the bigger problem, instead of making more rules look at why people dont want to PvP in the first place. 10-15+ years ago we went at it left and right. Whats changed over the course of those years and what are some things that can be done to correct it so PvP isn't something that is dreaded but instead fun once more.

[Kas]

Trying to put a band-aid on the bigger problem, instead of making more rules look at why people dont want to PvP in the first place. 10-15+ years ago we went at it left and right. Whats changed over the course of those years and what are some things that can be done to correct it so PvP isn't something that is dreaded but instead fun once more.

What would you suggest to make pvp more fun?

[Greneth]

Trying to put a band-aid on the bigger problem, instead of making more rules look at why people dont want to PvP in the first place. 10-15+ years ago we went at it left and right. Whats changed over the course of those years and what are some things that can be done to correct it so PvP isn't something that is dreaded but instead fun once more.

What would you suggest to make pvp more fun?

Personally I think either removing/drastically lowering the exp lost from a death on a PvP kill would go a long ways, leave the way it works if you die to a mob. You have to look at what people dread the most about death, which is the exp and recovery. But I also think death should be somewhat meaningful. I'd instead like to see a loss of skills compared to massive exp, the ratio or how many lost is debatable. Skills, gear and bragging rights to me is enough for a PvP death.

Right now depending on your brute it can take a person anywhere from a week if they put their nose to the grind all day long every day or up to a month+. That doesn't exactly scream fun for anyone and I think for the griefing types it only fuels them knowing that someone will be put at a severe disadvantage. This also provides another much needed money sink, able to kill a few birds with one stone.

Just my 2cc

[Thalric]

How about making a death penalty depend on how big enemy team average is vs your team average.

So if Hero X is being attacked by myth Y, Z and W, their average is perhaps 4-5 times higher than his, and then the normal XP loss is divided by that.

If myth X fight myth Y, the chances of getting away is a lot bigger, but losing will be to an opponent of relatively same size, to penalty is full.

If though, myth X is afk and looking at birds and champion Y comes by and kills him, he will have lost to a smaller enemy and his penalty is higher.

If 2 teams of same average is fighting the XP loss will be close to normal.

This will generally do that if you're killed by superior numbers, which is the fact in way most pkills, then you will get your loss lowered.

[Cherek]

We've had this discussion more times than an elf with supreme INT can count.

From what I can remember of past discussions everyone have their own idea on how to change PVP. Meanwhile upstairs, there really has been a lack of available wizards who could potentially change it. I've always wanted to, but I don't have the authority nor the knowledge to do it. The same goes for the majority of wizards. Lately, as you know there has been more activity in the wizard world, just like in the game as a whole, so maybe there is a chance something could change. If someone can decide _how_ to change it. However, it also feels like a lot of players do not want to be part of PVP at all, and just want to mind their own business, and maybe are quite happy with PVP as it is. That is, not a very big part of the game?

I think of you players (wizards included) _truly_ want PVP to change, I would recommend creating some sort of group (a thread here, or group on discord maybe?) for it, come up with a really good idea, and send it in to the admin, signed with a large number of player names. Posting random ideas here makes a fun discussion (again) but for an actual change to happen, a much more serious idea has to be presented, and with a lot of backing. That would also a relatively united playerbase asking for a change. Who wants to take charge?

[Habiki]

Remember this 20 page thread on death penalty? https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewt ... f=2&t=2557
We did test removing death penalty totally. It didn't amount to very much difference.

Also, could see this pvp in genesis thread:
https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewt ... f=2&t=3448

[Greneth]

Remember this 20 page thread on death penalty? https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewt ... f=2&t=2557
We did test removing death penalty totally. It didn't amount to very much difference.

Also, could see this pvp in genesis thread:
https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewt ... f=2&t=3448

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Code:
Hello all,

I just thought I'd share a bit of good news with everyone. 2017 is turning out
to be an amazingly nifty "new normal" for player interest and activity. For
comparison, lets look at the daily APH from five years ago for the first 35
days of that year:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20120101  XXXXXXXXX             (9)
20120102  XXXXXXXXXX            (10)
20120103  XXXXXXXXXX            (10)
20120104  XXXXXXXXX             (9)
20120105  XXXXXXXXXX            (10)
20120106  XXXXXXXX              (8)
20120107  XXXXXXXX              (8)
20120108  XXXXXXXXX             (9)
20120109  XXXXXXX               (7)
20120110  XXXXXXXX              (8)
20120111  XXXXXXX               (7)
20120112  XXXXXXX               (7)
20120113  XXXXXX                (6)
20120114  XXXXXX                (6)
20120115  XXXXXXXXX             (9)
20120116  XXXXXXXXX             (9)
20120117  XXXXXXXXXX            (10)
20120118  XXXXXXXXXX            (10)
20120119  XXXXXXXXXX            (10)
20120120  XXXXXXXXXX            (10)
20120121  XXXXXXXXX             (9)
20120122  XXXXXXX               (7)
20120123  XXXXXXXX              (8)
20120124  XXXXXXXX              (8)
20120125  XXXXXXXXX             (9)
20120126  XXXXXXXXX             (9)
20120127  XXXXXXXX              (8)
20120128  XXXXXXXXX             (9)
20120129  XXXXXXXXXX            (10)
20120130  XXXXXXXXXX            (10)
20120131  XXXXXXXXXXX           (11)
20120201  XXXXXXXXXXX           (11)
20120202  XXXXXXXXXXX           (11)
20120203  XXXXXXXXXX            (10)
20120204  XXXXXXXXX             (9)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Displayed was the daily average of player activity on all days beginning on
20120101 and ending on 20120204.

              Average players per hour in given parameters = 8.885             
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2013 if I remember wasn't much different, that average might have barely doubled. If that.

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Code:
There are 101 players in the game.
Algarath*      Celrak         Irk            Quentariel*    Tommo+
Alplaka        Celse          Jagoda         Raelle         Watchereye
Alteor         Daimen*        Javelin        Ramirez*       Wolverine+
Andur          Danielyoo      Jezi           Ratheus        Xion*
Anjali         Decimia        Kleyth         Ria            Zar
Arioch         Dorrien        Klover*        Riedran        Zlobitel*
Aruman         Draugor+       Logg           Rowland*       Zugzug
Ashlinn        Dreamon        Lokeboi*       Sa*            -wizards-
Athenabeth*    Eledor         Malaerys       Sandrick*      Carnak*
Barph          Faery          Mallor         Skycho*        Cherek
Bashere        Fairlight      Manowar+       Snedecor*+     Cotillion
Belegorn       Faygoat        Minki*         Sprie          Finwe
Bella          Ghorphys*      Montagu*+      Starla*+       Gorboth
Bodvar         Graggen        Mumon          Stryder        Malus
Brutalitops*   Grimbash*      Myst           Stryker*       Nerull*
Calyphei       Groenk*+       Nilats         Talon          Plarry
Carlof         Grott          Pacal          Targun*        Shanoga
Cash           Gweyn          Pasha+         Thaun          Varian+
Cassius        Hannabeth*     Plukragar      Thebossme      
Cat            Hisssss        Pranjali+      Thrace*        
Celephias      Idnahg         Prokop         Tintaglia   

Things change when it's not just a few players running about on bots, you can't really call it a test when the game was at its lowest years.

[Cherek]

Regarding the test, I know several players who simply waited with killing their enemies until the test was over, so they would not "waste" kill when it would not hurt. Since everyone knew death was coming back, it's hard to draw conclusions from the test. And like Greneth mentioned, the playerbase was low, and no big conflicts going on. I don't think players would randomly starting fighting more if we changed the penalty, but _when_ war breaks out it would probably be a more fun experience. I like the skill-loss idea, as it gives you something to do with money as well.