Quickness

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Saimon
Wanderer
Posts: 62
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 23:08

Re: Quickness

Post by Saimon » 12 Apr 2018 21:08

sylphan wrote:
I have only ever experienced "slightly elevated" speed, but it makes a pretty significant difference to me, as I'm able to cast spells faster, which means faster kills. I don't think there's much of a mystery here, really.
The problem with alightly elevated is like with insignificant progress. You know you are faster, but how much you will never know until you have elevated level.

Raelle
Adept
Posts: 143
Joined: 18 Jul 2017 19:31

Re: Quickness

Post by Raelle » 12 Apr 2018 21:22

People appreciate seeing the metric but are disappointed that their imbues and haste items seem weak, especially in comparison to the mighty Elementals. complaining ensues. ignorance is bliss?

Syrk
Rising Hero
Posts: 362
Joined: 06 Jul 2011 22:24

Re: Quickness

Post by Syrk » 12 Apr 2018 21:39

It was known. However thanks to the meter the knowledge is spreading and hopefully it will be harder to ignore it.

Zugzug
Veteran
Posts: 233
Joined: 20 May 2017 15:25

Re: Quickness

Post by Zugzug » 12 Apr 2018 21:59

sylphan wrote:
Saimon wrote:Another issue is influence of speed levels on speed of kiling. There should be made tests by bigger number of players from different guilds to see it it is worth to trybto have second or third level of speed? There is quite a dificult to get such a levels without Elemental spell or Union special but question if it is worth that effort? How much faster you will kill having third level of speed in compare to full first one?
I have only ever experienced "slightly elevated" speed, but it makes a pretty significant difference to me, as I'm able to cast spells faster, which means faster kills. I don't think there's much of a mystery here, really.
I've been noting the effect of various speed items for a while now, naturally using only the information available to me - I wrote a little script that counted the time between my impales (RDA combat special) and kept track of average time over hundreds of samples (since time between each special is a bit randomized). I would then wear one haste item and reset the counters to see the effect on times, etc, etc and do various combinations of items/imbues. I (naturally) would discard any abnormally low or abnormally high values to get "decent" data.

I believe that no amount of haste is allowed to speed up your (properly coded, non-cheaty) special attack by 100%, or reduce time between each attack by half. Based on this assumption, I think there are (more or less) around 16 levels of quickness. Wearable items (fur robe, brown boots, golden gauntlets) as well as faint speed imbues reduce time between each attack by about 3%, or contribute about 6% towards the theoretical limit in speed. Pronounced speed imbue gives about 10% reduction in time per special, so about 20% contribution towards the limit.

As I wrote in a different thread, using a serrated obsidian halberd, all the items that I know of which provide haste (4 pieces) and 1 faint speed imbue, I was able to get my quickness level to "rapid". I am sure that if this happened on a saturday, or if I used a Sahavuli potion, I would be able to get to "extremely rapid" - the level which a basic layman spell starts with from what I understand.

I haven't figured out yet (and not even sure if it is possible from just the player information we have) to see the effects of quickness on white hits, but I would assume it is similar to the effect on specials.

I believe that quickness is not as useful for mages as it is for fighters, as more "casts per minute" = higher mana usage, so if your mana regeneration rate is unaffected you will be running out quicker.

Raelle
Adept
Posts: 143
Joined: 18 Jul 2017 19:31

Re: Quickness

Post by Raelle » 12 Apr 2018 22:15

so for fighters, and talking about damage, is an occ special attack with elemental haste unequivocally better than having both an occ and a lay special?
or it is just unfair that worshippers are able to be so quick?

Syrk
Rising Hero
Posts: 362
Joined: 06 Jul 2011 22:24

Re: Quickness

Post by Syrk » 12 Apr 2018 22:26

As all guilds go through balance process, it is all fair, right?

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Alisa
Hero
Posts: 381
Joined: 16 Nov 2014 23:10

Re: Quickness

Post by Alisa » 13 Apr 2018 11:27

Arman wrote:Now that quickness is something more measureable for mortals through the addition of quickness levels in your vitals list, I would like to get some mortal impressions about how it is perceived, used and implemented in the game.

Thanks in advance.
I like that you ask for opinions.

Efficiency is not measured in how cool players feel it is to have a high score on the meter :-) Some think it is.

In regards to how the meter is used, i have only seen it used to compare with others, and comment on how they are doing.
The items granting haste are quite different, and most doesn't give a full level on the meter, so you can't really compare a fur robe with golden gauntlets. There are not many items for same slot that gives haste. Imbuements are quite lower in power now, than the items giving haste, at least it seems so.

A standard for all guilds would be quite an easy way to defend the choices in each guild, but would also lock guilds into a certain pattern on how to be designed. I am inclined to say a standard is the best way here.

I doubt it would remove the cries of "guild A is OP" as you can read here. The fitting saying goes:
The grass is always greener on the other side

Zugzug
Veteran
Posts: 233
Joined: 20 May 2017 15:25

Re: Quickness

Post by Zugzug » 13 Apr 2018 19:08

Alisa wrote:...
The items granting haste are quite different, and most doesn't give a full level on the meter, so you can't really compare a fur robe with golden gauntlets. ...[/b]
If you cannot compare the effect of two items, that doesn't mean that others cannot.
Alisa wrote:...

I doubt it would remove the cries of "guild A is OP" as you can read here. The fitting saying goes:
The grass is always greener on the other side
Let me put this in terms easier for you to understand: grass is 50% green (caid) on my side and 75% green (caid) on your side, so yes, it is "greener" on one side :)

Also, for full disclosure, I think it would be helpful if you stated clearly in any discussion about EW that you personally and your friends control that guild, and are definitely interested in keeping the status quo, with control who gets in, who doesn't and who is booted out if necessary.

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Alisa
Hero
Posts: 381
Joined: 16 Nov 2014 23:10

Re: Quickness

Post by Alisa » 13 Apr 2018 20:02

Zugzug wrote:
Alisa wrote:...
The items granting haste are quite different, and most doesn't give a full level on the meter, so you can't really compare a fur robe with golden gauntlets. ...[/b]
If you cannot compare the effect of two items, that doesn't mean that others cannot.
Alisa wrote:...

I doubt it would remove the cries of "guild A is OP" as you can read here. The fitting saying goes:
The grass is always greener on the other side
Let me put this in terms easier for you to understand: grass is 50% green (caid) on my side and 75% green (caid) on your side, so yes, it is "greener" on one side :)

Also, for full disclosure, I think it would be helpful if you stated clearly in any discussion about EW that you personally and your friends control that guild, and are definitely interested in keeping the status quo, with control who gets in, who doesn't and who is booted out if necessary.
I have no clue to caid.

For full disclosure, your description is the task of a guild leader. Quite like your own acting, when saying no to some that wants to be RDA.

Zugzug
Veteran
Posts: 233
Joined: 20 May 2017 15:25

Re: Quickness

Post by Zugzug » 13 Apr 2018 20:25

Alisa wrote: I have no clue to caid.

For full disclosure, your description is the task of a guild leader. Quite like your own acting, when saying no to some that wants to be RDA.
RDA is an occupational guild. EW is just a layman guild, which (through your own and your friends doing) tries and succeeds in controlling and imposing occupational-like rules on members.

Let's get back on track for the discussion though - Arman wanted to know people's opinion on quickness. Besides 3 players (active ones) who get quickness through their OCC guild, the rest in genesis get quickness from EW. I never met anyone who is/was in EW and said (without jest) something like "bah, speed/quickness doesn't matter!". On the contrary, everyone who is honest says something like "bah, who really cares about that other stuff - it's nice, sure - but speed is king". I guess having the unburden spell to go along with speed works out nicely too.

Since we are having this conversation - yes, the evil players want to have quickness too, but we can't(*), so hence we write about it here.

(*) can't without bowing down and accepting you as our true leaders, that is :)

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