The nrules

Discuss general game topics or anything else that doesn't fit in the other forums
Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
User avatar
Luma
Adept
Posts: 101
Joined: 12 Feb 2017 06:07
Location: Studying spell scrolls

The nrules

Post by Luma » 30 Apr 2018 03:45

Code: Select all

<Newbie> Baymax(+): young ones im headed on a short hunt if you wish to join me
<Newbie> Caeb: Where?
<Newbie> Poultry(+): <Nrules> baymax. This isn't a chat line.
<Newbie> Baymax(+): meet me at the church in sparkle
<Newbie> Caeb: okay
<Newbie> Baymax(+): then tell that to grampal as well because he is the one i got the idea from
<Newbie> Baymax(+): I am helping
<Newbie> Poultry(+): Yes, but outside the purpose of the help line. <nrules> Baymax
<Newbie> Caeb: She was helping a newbie
<Newbie> Baymax(+): then like i said tell it to grampal as well
That is a segment of a discussion that happened on the nline before it derailed a bit and eventually stopped. However, I think this brings up an important point.
Should older players be allowed to extend help to all newbies through the nline?
Would that be risky because some players may abuse this?
Should this be something that only Grampal can do because well... he's Grampal?
Should we enforce this rule of no meeting up with other players through the nline, regardless if an older player is helping newbies?

sylphan
Great Adventurer
Posts: 185
Joined: 12 Nov 2017 19:56

Re: The nrules

Post by sylphan » 30 Apr 2018 13:09

Initially I defended Grampal after someone cried "nrules!" at him. Because he's Grampal. But I think it might be fairer, and make nrules actually easier to follow, if we are consistent. Grampal hangs out at the well. We all know this, and can pass it on in game to newbies. And if a newbie misses a hunt because Grampal doesn't announce it on ntell, well dang. She'll just have to check the well first thing next time she logs on. Or message Grampal.

User avatar
Alisa
Rising Hero
Posts: 355
Joined: 16 Nov 2014 23:10

Re: The nrules

Post by Alisa » 30 Apr 2018 14:51

Or maybe we can all ignore this occasional shout. It's not like its spammed or anything.

Be Happy. Be on Ntell to help, not to shout "wrong useage" at others.
Last edited by Alisa on 01 May 2018 06:12, edited 1 time in total.

sylphan
Great Adventurer
Posts: 185
Joined: 12 Nov 2017 19:56

Re: The nrules

Post by sylphan » 30 Apr 2018 23:40

Alisa wrote:Or maybe we can all this occasional shout.
What does this mean?

User avatar
gold bezie
Veteran
Posts: 235
Joined: 16 Mar 2015 19:29

Re: The nrules

Post by gold bezie » 01 May 2018 22:01

I know the wizards mailed Grampal a personal thank you, for all the help he has been doing. Lets face it, he really helped me back then, and may others.

But i get what Sylphan is saying. Might be time to end this stupid conversation by the wizards.
I vote for ai that Grampal gets a special treatment, or that wizards just allow older people to help younger ones by inviting them for an hunt

Anyway i find it very annoying that people like to shout nrules for something like this....
Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that.

User avatar
Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 2868
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: The nrules

Post by Cherek » 02 May 2018 02:38

Well, I am no longer in the AoP so I don't really have any say over the rules or ntell usage anymore, but I admit I personally cringe when self-appointed moderators feel the need to constantly tell others how to use the ntell. I think IF you are going to tell someone what they can or can't do, please use some finesse, and a careful friendly approach. I've seen several times helpers getting into ntell arguments about the nrules... ugh. Personally I think things like that does more harm than some newbie sometimes breaking a rule by mistake. That's just what I think though, but I have perhaps a more lenient approach to the ntell than many other wizards and players. Actually, as a player I was at one time almost banned from the ntell by Goroboth for helping newbies with quests. Of course when I became AoP I removed that particular rule from the nrules... And yes, don't worry, Gorboth grudgingly agreed to let me do it.:)

In general I think the ntell is one big reason that makes people stay long enough to get hooked on Genesis, but perhaps the rules could be clearer, or we could have some other system for moderation. Or perhaps remove the suggestion in nrules encouraging helpers to tell others to follow the rules? Or even have a rule _against it_? Too often that particular line of text seems to lead to helpers fighting each other on the ntell, or helpers telling real newbies to follow the rule in a not-so-polite (sometimes outright rude) way. Which... is not good.

Perhaps it should instead say:

"Please remember that being a helper does NOT make you a moderator of the ntell line. If you notice someone repeatedly breaking the <nrules> you should <mail aop> as soon as possible, or in severe cases of abuse, for example racial/sexual harassment, use the <commune> command to alert the wizards."

Or something like that. So, if someone breaks the rule, all you need to do is alert the AoP team, and then they can decide what to do, and we don't end up with helpers fighting each other, or not knowing how to interpret a rule, and no more newbies get scolded and leave. Anyway, look at me pretending to be AoP again! Also, it's much easier to suggest ideas that gives the AoP more job, when you are not in the team yourself. Thank me later Mirandus!:)

sylphan
Great Adventurer
Posts: 185
Joined: 12 Nov 2017 19:56

Re: The nrules

Post by sylphan » 02 May 2018 13:05

There are two very different scenarios being discussed here. Luma initially raised the question of helpers using ntell to invite newbies on a hunt. Personally I have no problem with this (especially since it is such a brief "interruption" anyway - one or two lines of text), but it does seem to be outside the stated function of the newbie line. Baymax pointed out a contradiction in how helpers deal with such "infractions."

Cherek seems to have in mind the correction of newbies by helpers, which wasn't the initial question. But I'll say that a rule disallowing helpers from (politely) correcting newbies would be a mistake, because it would cause a lot of helpers to remove - or break - their pins. However good newbies are for the game, their pirivate chatter among themselves being broadcast to everyone's chatbox is irritating to most older players. If the latter are not allowed to clarify that ntell is not for chatter (and in my limited experience, this is far and away the most common cause of ntell disputes), well, players will find both that new rule and the resulting spam to be very irritating indeed.

Finally, as much as I want new players to enjoy the game and stick around long enough to see how deep and rich it is, I won't consider it a loss if we lose players who can't take correction. Every community has rules; players who take personally a civil request to read and study the nrules, and who react defensively, can - as far as I am concerned - sod off.

Johnny
Veteran
Posts: 226
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 09:33
Location: Washington State

Re: The nrules

Post by Johnny » 02 May 2018 18:03

Would creating a system for hunting party notifications be plausible?

The person who wants to take newbies through a grind session lets the Sparkle town crier know that there will be a hunting party gathering outside the Sparkle Church and in 15 minutes the party will depart for their hunt and the crier sends a notification to the newbies wearing a newbie pin.

sylphan
Great Adventurer
Posts: 185
Joined: 12 Nov 2017 19:56

Re: The nrules

Post by sylphan » 02 May 2018 18:08

Johnny wrote:Would creating a system for hunting party notifications be plausible?

The person who wants to take newbies through a grind session lets the Sparkle town crier know that there will be a hunting party gathering outside the Sparkle Church and in 15 minutes the party will depart for their hunt and the crier sends a notification to the newbies wearing a newbie pin.
This is an excellent idea.

User avatar
Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 2868
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: The nrules

Post by Cherek » 03 May 2018 01:31

sylphan wrote:There are two very different scenarios being discussed here. Luma initially raised the question of helpers using ntell to invite newbies on a hunt. Personally I have no problem with this (especially since it is such a brief "interruption" anyway - one or two lines of text), but it does seem to be outside the stated function of the newbie line. Baymax pointed out a contradiction in how helpers deal with such "infractions."

Cherek seems to have in mind the correction of newbies by helpers, which wasn't the initial question. But I'll say that a rule disallowing helpers from (politely) correcting newbies would be a mistake, because it would cause a lot of helpers to remove - or break - their pins. However good newbies are for the game, their pirivate chatter among themselves being broadcast to everyone's chatbox is irritating to most older players. If the latter are not allowed to clarify that ntell is not for chatter (and in my limited experience, this is far and away the most common cause of ntell disputes), well, players will find both that new rule and the resulting spam to be very irritating indeed.

Finally, as much as I want new players to enjoy the game and stick around long enough to see how deep and rich it is, I won't consider it a loss if we lose players who can't take correction. Every community has rules; players who take personally a civil request to read and study the nrules, and who react defensively, can - as far as I am concerned - sod off.
Yeah my reply was mainly in response to Alisa's and Goldbezie's posts. I do agree that newbies who truly abuse the line as a chat line is a problem, and I do not have a problem with them being corrected. But I have noticed quite a lot of the time, someone asking a question about a quest, or to meet, or something relatively harmless (but agains the rules), and then immediately, and quite rudely, gets told to check the rules. Some helpers seem more interested in policing the chat than actually helping. I do not agree at all with your attitude that players who "can't take being told to study the rules" can "sod off" though. Genesis is in many ways a very alien world for many new players, who are used to modern games, that basically always have chat lines. We need to realize that it may take time for them to truly grasp the ntell concept, and that we need to be patient and polite with them when explaining how things work here.

You do have a point though. We might end up with endless RL chatter if helpers can't explain the rules. So, yeah, fine. My idea was not the best.:) Instead of removing that line in the rules we should perhaps rephrase it to say that helpers who aren't polite or start arguing with each other may be banned or something.

Anyway, as for the actual topic. I personally would not mind a helper using the line to announce a team for newbies. But technically it IS against the rules, but to be honest I would not see it as being against the spirit of the rules. I'd be surprised to see Mirandus banning anyone using the ntell to invite newbies for a a tour. But, you'll have to ask him directly to know for sure!

Post Reply
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/