What killed the PvP?

[Drazson]

I do wonder how big a percentage of the players that want more PvP?

Yeah I do wonder that as well. Maybe a poll

[Amberlee]

I do wonder how big a percentage of the players that want more PvP?

Nice of you to want to encourage and better PvP, but if the players don't want it...
It will then be a huge waste of time that could be spent elsewhere.
Perhaps in making the playing field more level.

Do you mean those who want more PvP?
Or those who cry like babies and request deletion when their action cause them to get hunted?

[Mavros]

I do wonder how big a percentage of the players that want more PvP?

Nice of you to want to encourage and better PvP, but if the players don't want it...
It will then be a huge waste of time that could be spent elsewhere.
Perhaps in making the playing field more level.

Do you mean those who want more PvP?
Or those who cry like babies and request deletion when their action cause them to get hunted?

Could you name a specific instance of this abuse? Just want to know so that any change, if at all, doesn't cause behavior that deserves deletion.

[gold bezie]

nice subject, loved to read it, and agreed with a lot of things.

Just my copper: oh running away from myths in overpowerful guilds is not that hard. Back at the (second war) with the bda against most of the other guilds, i was a small ranger. No myth BDA or MM could kill me (and yes they tried), at least when i knew what to do and payed attention.

But... is it fun being in a guild that all its useful powers are much less powerful than other new guilds? Or only be able to run away? While you are in a guild with a theme to fight and free your homeland?

And ive seen some myths making sure guilds like calians and knights are not able to grow, because of things happend in the past that new players dont have anything to do with... Or because they just dont like it that someone else is getting bigger or for whatever reason they have...

Its a free game run by volunteers... and by players.... so this is what you get

[Amberlee]

I do wonder how big a percentage of the players that want more PvP?

Nice of you to want to encourage and better PvP, but if the players don't want it...
It will then be a huge waste of time that could be spent elsewhere.
Perhaps in making the playing field more level.

Do you mean those who want more PvP?
Or those who cry like babies and request deletion when their action cause them to get hunted?

Could you name a specific instance of this abuse? Just want to know so that any change, if at all, doesn't cause behavior that deserves deletion.

I should be clearer.
Request themselves to get deleted because getting their comeuppance wasn't "fun" for them.
Names I will refrain from.
They know who they are.

[Budwise]

Who do you want to make PvP easier for? People that enjoy that sort of thing,
so they can run around and kill more players? Thus ruining the fun for those of us
that might not want PvP all that much.

Not a fan. Especially since I'm not a scripted grindhead which it seems you have to be
to make up for deaths these days. After three hours killing I tend to nod off.
If you want to change something change the focus on growth and rankings.

Also... get off mah lawn!

Huggles
B the Grumpy One

[Amberlee]

Also... get off mah lawn!

Huggles
B the Grumpy One

This is a lie!
Budwise is not grumpy

[kelrhys]

Does Genesis really need more PvP? My observation is there is quite a bit of PvP at low-mid levels, and less frequent but still regular PvP occurring at myth levels, for reasons such as:

1. Bot vigilante justice
2. Guild territory protection (both old and newly declared areas)
3. Krynn War
4. Holm
5. XP area protection
6. Troll punishment/retaliation
7. Retaliation for friend/guildmate being killed.

Most myths seem to be more achievement-focused than domination focused. Hence, the most frustration with PvP is with #2 and #5 above, because it inhibits growth/achievement. The biggest problem is when anyone gets too strong for even a team of 2-3 to kill, and becomes essentially invincible. A lighter death penalty would result in the invincible becoming yet moreso.

I played a mud (not naming names!) which has a city war system that requires war leaders to synergize multiple class abilities to destroy their enemy and dismantle their defenses. Then there is retaliation in the form of a bounty list, in which every individual who raids the city is challenged to a duel by skilled bounty hunters. If the duel is refused, the individual is hunted down and killed (most likely).

I personally found after just a few months of being involved in the endless raids and city defense, that it was repetitive and boring. It was hard to grow even with relatively tiny penalty for death, because you died so much. The top bounty hunters were virtually impossible to beat for a number of reasons. But there was pressure to be in the army, and those who do not defend are looked down upon. It became a job with little fun attached to it, so I left and returned to Genesis.

On Genesis, PvP often seem to engender as much personal animosity as concern for recovery time. But it is usually a choice as to whether to participate. The Guild one joins, the areas one travels, the company one keeps all shape the frequency with which PvP is engaged. This sets Genesis apart from muds that have sophisticated yet fully "canned" war systems. PvP deaths here are exciting news, generating buzz and gossip, instead of a constant occurrence, soon ignored and dull.

I would prefer to see continued focus on balanced yet unique abilities, and perhaps rewards given for reporting potentially exploitable bugs.

Thanks to all who work to keep Genesis running,

Kelrhys

[Amberlee]

Does Genesis really need more PvP? My observation is there is quite a bit of PvP at low-mid levels, and less frequent but still regular PvP occurring at myth levels, for reasons such as:

1. Bot vigilante justice
2. Guild territory protection (both old and newly declared areas)
3. Krynn War
4. Holm
5. XP area protection
6. Troll punishment/retaliation
7. Retaliation for friend/guildmate being killed.

Most myths seem to be more achievement-focused than domination focused. Hence, the most frustration with PvP is with #2 and #5 above, because it inhibits growth/achievement. The biggest problem is when anyone gets too strong for even a team of 2-3 to kill, and becomes essentially invincible. A lighter death penalty would result in the invincible becoming yet moreso.

I played a mud (not naming names!) which has a city war system that requires war leaders to synergize multiple class abilities to destroy their enemy and dismantle their defenses. Then there is retaliation in the form of a bounty list, in which every individual who raids the city is challenged to a duel by skilled bounty hunters. If the duel is refused, the individual is hunted down and killed (most likely).

I personally found after just a few months of being involved in the endless raids and city defense, that it was repetitive and boring. It was hard to grow even with relatively tiny penalty for death, because you died so much. The top bounty hunters were virtually impossible to beat for a number of reasons. But there was pressure to be in the army, and those who do not defend are looked down upon. It became a job with little fun attached to it, so I left and returned to Genesis.

On Genesis, PvP often seem to engender as much personal animosity as concern for recovery time. But it is usually a choice as to whether to participate. The Guild one joins, the areas one travels, the company one keeps all shape the frequency with which PvP is engaged. This sets Genesis apart from muds that have sophisticated yet fully "canned" war systems. PvP deaths here are exciting news, generating buzz and gossip, instead of a constant occurrence, soon ignored and dull.

I would prefer to see continued focus on balanced yet unique abilities, and perhaps rewards given for reporting potentially exploitable bugs.

Thanks to all who work to keep Genesis running,

Kelrhys

1. That is legit and imo a necessary thing in genesis.
2. I find this mostly to be an excuse though in some occurances a legit thing(As in the nazgul and FBB) though they are rarely ever enforced.
3. Krynn wars spice things up but often end up becomming an excuse for the bigger characters to act like complete asshats to smaller ones (Take PoT wrecking havoc on knights as an example, more or less forcing an entire guild to stop playing)
4. Pretty much an excuse to be a dick.
5. VERY MUCH an excuse to be a dick.
6 and 7 are hard to comment on because so much goes on and person A stepped on person B's toes et cetra et cetra and person C was rude so person D... You can see where this is going. A tangled nest of what we like to call "Sparkle bullshit drama"

All in all I find your analysis very thought through and nuanced.
What I think is more prevalent is personal animosity and the hatred/dislike certain players have for each other.
Granted, something I have been accused of at times, it is a disease in Genesis, one that would be amazing if went away.
People hating characters they never even met with their own character before because they know that it's played by someone they dislike and thus do their best to ruin their experience.. Not something cool and something very prevalent in Genesis unfortunately.

[Tommo]

Personally PVP is aone reason I dont play much (ever) now. (not the only reason)

I dont have as much time to focus time on the game and when I am in I need to break off here and there for RL commitments ( family/kids etc). What I started seeing more and more was a few super big, typically goblin players, wait until they are huge then start focusing on PVP, by bullying races who clearly have a significant disadvantage. This means the whole log in session is split between RL tasks and checking to see if you have been jumped by someone.

End result dont bother playing. Not the fault of the game, not the fault of people who are so bored of questing/exploring/killing that the only way they can have fun is to throw their weight around, thats just their RP. Still doesnt make it a fun game to play

Now IF certain areas where PVP only, to allow for people to settle scores and prove a point, and allow the rest of us to enjoy the game and not just get chased around, I would have reason to play again.

Tommo