Hiding titles

[Zhar]

For newbies Someone of House Beor, the Wardmaster of Eriador and High Speaker of the Valar, expert, male human looks 10x more epic and impressive than Some Surname, myth, male human.

[nils]

You all seem to be of the mind that if a freedom of choice is granted then everyone will instantly choose to utilize said freedom.

It reminds me of abortion debates I've had in the past, where every "pro lifer" seems to think that if the limit to when an abortion can be undertaken is extended, suddenly everyone will have abortions for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

The "good for newbies"-argument reminds me of whether or not it should be legal, and the pro-lifer is of the mind that since his or her view is that abortion is murder, nobody should be allowed to do it. Usually it's based on some archaic belief system originating in the middle east and 'logically' it follows that these "rules" somehow apply to everyone.

Thing is, just because something is legal/possible doesn't mean -you- have to do it. I seriously doubt most players will. In fact, I've met more vanity when it comes to title length, having 4 lines of title being the desired outcome. I guess it's the same with large hands.. ?

As for newbies.. I've asked previously for more rewards for "wasting time". Also, it seems developers are hell bent on making any new (or even existing grinds) into newbie death traps (see kabal cathedral, terel trolls, avenir ogres not to mention recent changes to ents in fangorn).

Obviously newbies in more ways than one profit from teaming with a myth, but for the myth to bring the newbie, half his or her normal grinds are off limits, which needless to say severely affects the decision to even bother bringing another person to begin with. Not everyone is altrustic/"newbie friendly", but I applaud those who are.

Anyway, for me it's directly linked to guild choice and the 'neccessary support guilds' that supply abilities and skills I've come to depend on. I don't -play- these latter guilds. I'm a silent member and I don't understand why my silent membership -MUST- be broadcast beyond tribal marks, visible guild items etc etc. Also, I fail to see how -I- wish to appear and identify is somehow in direct conflict with newbies' well being, comfort etc. Mind you, even though my occupational guild allows me to hide my title, I don't. I wish to hide the ones not pertinent to "who I am". They are, as I see it, irrelevant.

Just to be very clear, I never asked to hide my affiliation all together. Riding a wolf covered in war paint kinda sets the tone anyway. I also think my title/rank should be very much visible for other members of the same guild too, like now.

TL:DR Choice is freedom. Some, but hardly everyone, likely only a few, will chose "Name the Myth, gender race"

[Sibbedidenn]

I think Arman made a good point about the game being descriptive in nature and that it should be reserved for rogues to hide descriptive things that should be obvious to anyone with sight. But, I voted yes, I want it, because although I agree it should not be available outside of stealth skills or clothing to hide ur race or height and things of that nature, I think you should be able to control what titles you mention when <introduce"-ing oneself. Mainly the, I am sib, Old Fogey Supreme, Senile Hedge Wizie of the Fourth Moon, and Grandmaster Absolute Unit of Gont, travels to Faerie occasionally, greenhorne, male human, part. I would be down to turn on a 'conversational' intro or something where you can casually say "I am sib" and they get a prompt on their screen that read "you can tell he is human, tall and a bit wide or whatnot". Would be cool.

[Sibbedidenn]

as opposed to the current intro where I imagine myself superman posing and intoning it with a theatrical flair.

[Redblade]

I think Arman made a good point about the game being descriptive in nature and that it should be reserved for rogues to hide descriptive things that should be obvious to anyone with sight. But, I voted yes, I want it, because although I agree it should not be available outside of stealth skills or clothing to hide ur race or height and things of that nature, I think you should be able to control what titles you mention when <introduce"-ing oneself. Mainly the, I am sib, Old Fogey Supreme, Senile Hedge Wizie of the Fourth Moon, and Grandmaster Absolute Unit of Gont, travels to Faerie occasionally, greenhorne, male human, part. I would be down to turn on a 'conversational' intro or something where you can casually say "I am sib" and they get a prompt on their screen that read "you can tell he is human, tall and a bit wide or whatnot". Would be cool.

What stops you introducing yourself with <say I am Sib>? Genesis really is a descriptive game - describe yourself as good as you can. Countless times I have given my introduction to someone in means no other than <say You can call me Red> or <say Oh, I am just a concerned traveller> and so on.

Genesis has a mechanic of <introduce>, <remember> and <who> that serve a purpose of remembering friends and foes so that you can adress them more easily with commands. This mechanic works rather well (some could say the memory capacity is not as big as they'd need it to be) and part of it is introducing with all of your titles. Introducing to someone is therefore a gesture of trust, as you entrust the player a status update everytime you change a title or change a guild, race, size... I do not see a problem with this mechanic. If you do not want the players to have these information on you, don't introduce - use <say Hello! I am Sib.> and let the others make a nickname <nick sib "your description">.

[sylphan]

Genesis has a mechanic of <introduce>, <remember> and <who> that serve a purpose of remembering friends and foes so that you can adress them more easily with commands. This mechanic works rather well (some could say the memory capacity is not as big as they'd need it to be) and part of it is introducing with all of your titles. Introducing to someone is therefore a gesture of trust, as you entrust the player a status update everytime you change a title or change a guild, race, size... I do not see a problem with this mechanic. If you do not want the players to have these information on you, don't introduce - use <say Hello! I am Sib.> and let the others make a nickname <nick sib "your description">.

Couldn't agree more. If you don't want people to have all your information, don't give it to them!

[Sibbedidenn]

Yeah, it is a good point.

[Makfly]

The same argument can be made to allow for players to make up their own titles.

Genesis is a descriptive game... guild titles are a feature of that. And it is a feature I like and strongly support.

I am not going to support options allowing the turning off of guild titles except in the case of rogue classes... where incognito is a class feature.

So, are you going to be removing it from the caster and fighter guilds that can already hide their titles?

Also it really is a poor argument, that only Rogue guilds should be able to do this, as the absence of titles then simply become the proof of what you are trying to hide. Which makes it all counter productive to even have the ability.

I think most of the counter-arguments made here is fairly weak and seems to boil down to 'It's not something I would use, therefore nobody should have it' or are like Zhar who thinks they know best what newbies would prefer.


I think the original request, and not the strawmen that's also been erected in the thread, to hide (only) ones guild titles would create an extra tool with which players can use to express themselves in game. Additional ways to do that is per default a good idea, I think.
Then players can choose to introduce themselves as Bob, myth, male human and later on show himself to be Bob, Son of Arathorn III, Heir of Misildur, Heir to the Throne of Fundor, myth, male human, for full dramatic impact.
Sometimes it's narratively fitting to "hide" all those titles, and other times the full barrage of titles can be used to dramatic effect. Let the players have the tools to choose what would make the most sense in the moment.

Also to Sylphan and others who say that you can just say 'Hi I'm Bob'. Sure, but introducing in Genesis also has a functional use that goes beyond giving your name. And why not turn it around - Why can you just not choose to hide your titles, if that is what you prefer, and then you will present your character as you always have?


One aspect that hasn't been touched on, though, that I think is extremely important, is guild-titles and the who list.
Genesis prides itself on hiding information and encouraging players to find out themselves. This keeps much of the game a mystery and makes it fairly unique, in a good way, I think.
But since only very few can hide their titles, the who list gives away SO many things that is detrimental to keeping things a mystery.
As soon as someone changes guilds, everyone and their mother knows it. As soon as a new guild opens up, everyone and their brother knows it. Even if players try to keep it a secret like with FK, the who list spoils it instantly.
We will most likely see it again with the coming Vampire guild, which again will be a shame. There could be SO much fun to be had, if everyone would be on their toes about who might be, or not be, a vampire or on the way to becoming one.

So I would advocate that not only should players be able to hide their guild titles when introducing, but also in the who list.
Those that do not want to use it can choose not to use it, and those that do want to gain an extra tool in how they wish their character to be presented in the Realms.
It's a win win for all - Also newbies.

[Taro]

...

Totally agree with everything here.

[Riva]

Personally I think customization is a good thing. Why not let people have custom titles? The main drawback to that would be, of course, that someone could make their title something hateful and offensive. But if somebody does that could the wizards not just force them to change it? And if they repeat continually they could just disable the option for the offender? Or even a simple word filter.

I am in one of the aforementioned rogue guilds and I find the hiding of titles pretty lame. Part of being a rogue is stealth, social stealth is a natural extension of that. Having a title that says "Riva the Warrior" (or whatever) is surely more stealthy than "Riva, (Hidden title, I'm totally not a thief or a ranger or an assassin), Female Human"

A lot of default titles are cool on their own, but what's the fun if you're stuck in a guild that doesn't let you show them off? Yay my guild of four active members can all see them...how fun...