Crowd control

[Rache]

Killers will always find a reason to kill; Socializers, Achievers, and
Explorers are unlikely to match their drive to avenge their losses. Only
other killers pose a challenge. Too bad that is not what some of them are
looking for.

Kelrhys

You act like PVP went away with the changes. It didn't, it's just meaningless now. If you believe that players go around wantonly attacking and killing each other with no regard for rules (guild or otherwise) then we're playing very different games. There are very strict rules about griefing, newbie killing, etc. What we are proposing is a game with real danger, real consequences for stepping out of line, and better ways to balance the game.

[TaranGoatWalker]

Research from *gameanalytics.com shows that only 1% of the player population
are primary Killer types, so it is good that the goal is not to cater to
that at the expense of the 99%.

For those who enjoy sparring but not necessarily killing other players, the
current system works fine. Re-enabling any form of root/snare/block will
be a benefit for those who are looking for extra challenge and/or to defend
their guild or mete out justice, but it will also help the 1% who live to
ruin someone else's day who didn't have it coming.

If it is considered worth the effort to evaluate and modify 10+ different
areas to enable this, and it leads to a worse game experience for the 99%,
that's a big negative for the game overall.

As a mitigation for this risk, I like the proposal to offer counter/escape
abilities with the conditions Nils mentions, but for ALL occupational guilds
that do not currently have a root/snare/block. Maybe that was what was meant
by guilds that are avoidant of PvP conflict, but I wasn't sure. This would
then make items which root a potential source of double-dipping so they
should be taken into consideration.

Thalric brings up an interesting point about darkness. It is a powerful
tool for a Killer, especially against an unprepared Socializer, Achiever,
and Explorer type. However, it's significantly easier to be prepared to
overcome this with light than it is to produce deep darkness. When combined
with an escape ability, it seems acceptable.

Killers will always find a reason to kill; Socializers, Achievers, and
Explorers are unlikely to match their drive to avenge their losses. Only
other killers pose a challenge. Too bad that is not what some of them are
looking for.

Kelrhys

* https://gameanalytics.com/blog/understa ... -taxonomy/

Does that happen now? I don't really think so; we have a lovely vigilante social justice system.
Did it happen before? Not really, and if it happened, we still have our lovely rule of the mob.
I see it as beneficial, allowing people to kill others. Surely to the socialiser actions now matter?
(Also, even without CC, if people were killing people with no reason, it's still doable, and lack of movement limiters shouldn't be a way to prevent griefing imho)
P.S. I don't remember it being especially easy to kill people willy nilly even with CC.

[Taro]

What needs to be looked at is the death penalty for PVP -- it should sting, but not a several-month-long penalty as it is now.

I want to bump this to attention especially. I want PvP and PvP tools back and meaningful - but people will always oppose them as long as the death penalties are as harsh as they are, currently.

[zizuph]

What needs to be looked at is the death penalty for PVP -- it should sting, but not a several-month-long penalty as it is now.

I want to bump this to attention especially. I want PvP and PvP tools back and meaningful - but people will always oppose them as long as the death penalties are as harsh as they are, currently.

That is also being revisited, as a prerequisite for this.

[Quantum]

As can be seen by several of the first posters, and Kelrhys' note, a lot of people really don't want pvp in the game.

Instead of arguing for/against, could we limit pvp to certain areas? Then those who like pvp can go and hunt each other, without ruining everyone elses game?

I expect the pvp lovers to trash this, as that means they won't have any easy prey to hunt. And then pvp is boring for them. I mean, actually challenging pvp against likeminded? That's not what they want. They want to ruin your day when you're not looking for pvp. And I really would hate to see that reintroduced.

Peace in our time!

[kelrhys]

It seems that I may not have been clear enough in my post. I am in favor of crowd control abilities, once the death penalty is mellowed, as long as Zizuph's proposed counter/escape solution along with the appropriate costs is implemented for all guilds that don't have existing abilities which hold players in place or otherwise make it easier to score a kill.

Although bullies are an unfortunate reality, there is a healthy tension that is missing from the game currently when guilds can't realistically defend themselves or mete out justice against any but small fry and the perpetually afk.

Limiting pvp to certain areas means kill stealers and flagrant bots are off the hook, and there are at least as many of those as bullies.

[Budwise]

Limit stuns to certain areas I think he might have meant?
PvP we have already.

Not really in favour either. Just making the game more fun for the griefers.

[qwertheangmarim]

It seems that I may not have been clear enough in my post. I am in favor of crowd control abilities, once the death penalty is mellowed, as long as Zizuph's proposed counter/escape solution along with the appropriate costs is implemented for all guilds that don't have existing abilities which hold players in place or otherwise make it easier to score a kill.

Although bullies are an unfortunate reality, there is a healthy tension that is missing from the game currently when guilds can't realistically defend themselves or mete out justice against any but small fry and the perpetually afk.

Limiting pvp to certain areas means kill stealers and flagrant bots are off the hook, and there are at least as many of those as bullies.

This is kinda the mood, methinks, for a lotta people, killing people is a tool used to enlighten... those who are less careful then they should be with certain individuals, having been killed, and justly so, multiple times for incorrect behaviors myself, I understand this. Though a lightened death penalty would be most helpful

[Budwise]

PvP hasn't gone anywhere far as I know. It's the ability to stun we are discussing.
So this just benefits the guilds with this ability. As a Calian I'm worse off than before.

Also there's very little "justice" involved in the playstyles of some of the people
that will enjoy the return of stuns. Killing small or idle players willy nilly if their past is anything to go by.

So yay for the griefers and meh for the rest of us.

[Zorath]

Worst part for me in any kill or death, is to loose all your equipment, herbs, ingredients,
imbued items and ofcourse the death penalty(which I read that is beeing fixed probably),
which takes forever mostly to get back.

Some might argue with what is the point of killing anyone if not getting theire equipment,
but if it were up to me, the equipment would follow the playerkilled in some way.
It is hard enough to die, and recover.

Zorath