Two handed combat - questions

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Rhaegar
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Two handed combat - questions

Post by Rhaegar » 26 Jan 2011 11:48

Since I've been away for some time I'd like to ask a couple of questions regarding the topic:

So, the two-handed weapons were finally buffed to offset the loss of a shield but what about two handed combat?
If the chance of getting extra hits with additional weapon was not enough before, has anything changed about it?
Is now two-handed or shield the only choices and dual wielding still being crap?
How many people actually started using two-handed weapons in the guilds which tended to use one-handers previously?
Has the idea of thc working towards your parry skill been implemented or dropped? (actual_parry=parry+(thc/2) was the proposed change I believe)

Asking this as it's been ages since I've seen anyone dual wield or any Gladiators for that matter...
Last edited by Rhaegar on 26 Jan 2011 12:55, edited 1 time in total.
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OgreToyBoy
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Re: Two handed combat - questions

Post by OgreToyBoy » 26 Jan 2011 12:11

I dual wield, but that's pretty much because I can't use shields or find any two-handed weapons that fit my hands :)

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Rhaegar
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Re: Two handed combat - questions

Post by Rhaegar » 26 Jan 2011 12:43

I think I should mention that the question isn't directed at ogres for obvious reasons :P

Edit:
@OTB:
I'm going off topic here but I'd like to request you changing your avatar so I won't be confused any more (orc=/=ogre).
Here are some nice ogre avatars I made especially for you.

Image Image
Image Image
I fear no evil for I am fear incarnate.

Laurel

Re: Two handed combat - questions

Post by Laurel » 26 Jan 2011 13:33

Rhaegar wrote:two-handed weapons were finally buffed to offset the loss of a shield
what have you been smoking?

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Rhaegar
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Re: Two handed combat - questions

Post by Rhaegar » 26 Jan 2011 13:57

Well, that's what I gathered from the changelist G posted...
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Cherek
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Re: Two handed combat - questions

Post by Cherek » 26 Jan 2011 15:48

Wasnt that a list with things to be changed? Or was is listed as fixed? I havent heard about two-handed weapons being buffed...?

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Earth
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Re: Two handed combat - questions

Post by Earth » 26 Jan 2011 18:56

I sometimes use two handed weapons instead of two weapons or weapon and shield. From my personal testing, there are times where one situation is better than others, but I won't say exactly what I have found as if I am correctly, the knowledge may provide me some strategic advantange...

Targun
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Re: Two handed combat - questions

Post by Targun » 31 Jan 2011 13:51

I'd say generally it doesn't pay off going dual-wep. There are a few exceptions from tat rule and these are:
- Your special is haste dependant (for obvious reasons you want to stack haste- it's limited now though)
- While solo grinding your health does not drop and npcs' def skills are low enough for most of your non-special swings to hit the target
- Obviosly- someone else is tanking

Still, the general rule looks like that: one hander+shield> two-hander > dual wielding. It's just weapon's PEN plays a high role in special attacks formulas, so special from two-hander will be considerably more potent than one-hander- when dual wielding. This means non-special swings dmg would have to surpass the deficit in special attack dmg and higher dmg of two-hander swings- which happens rarely. This makes the ogres and SU pretty much the only guilds using dual wielding on regular basis. (Quite a shame IMHO- always liked the idea of two dual-wielding killing machines bringing havoc. Seems like special dmg:swing dmg ratio is still too high for it to be in beneficial).

Laurel

Re: Two handed combat - questions

Post by Laurel » 31 Jan 2011 14:05

Targun: there is just one assumption to your note (which I generally agree with) - that 2h weapon PEN is higher than 1h weapon PEN ... and this assumption is untrue for quite a lot of weapons in Gen ;)

Calians in my days always used runie for the haste but swarmed with a rhanded weapon (obsi, JBS, maul, etc.) when it was still possible to set up
same with BDA before my Calian days - set slash for rhandweapon and bring a runie with you (runie+JBS was always my favourite)
that was all in the days when heaps of infidels and other Kabal NPC's were better (quicker and easier) exp than any trolls around ... afterwards the exp-recode hit hard :?

Hektor
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Re: Two handed combat - questions

Post by Hektor » 31 Jan 2011 14:16

This is based on some observations of lending out weapons to fighters, especially Calians and Knights, as well as experimenting with a new character with this question in mind. Though, I realize you would need the numbers to really say.. but:

When the combat system was recoded a few years ago - strength also became a major factor. It seems to me that today people with strength and using the big 2-handed weapons do considerably more damage than they used to, especially with their combat abilities. Dual wielding is still very potent, but it seems to take more skill today to really gain the benefit. I think what Laurel says is very correct of the old combat system but not at all the combat system of today.

I guess we will just have to keep trying to experiment :)
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