Leaving Discords... (posted here since it was deleted)

[Cherek]

It’s a game, and recovery is easy… don’t like fighting? Stay out of high profile guilds or away from certain entities,

Exactly. Random murders are actually quite uncommon in Genesis. If you want no part of PVP and don’t want to risk being killed in PvP (even more than once!), just stay away from it. Join a peaceful guild and stay out of guild conflicts.

[Rache]

It’s a game, and recovery is easy… don’t like fighting? Stay out of high profile guilds or away from certain entities,

Exactly. Random murders are actually quite uncommon in Genesis. If you want no part of PVP and don’t want to risk being killed in PvP (even more than once!), just stay away from it. Join a peaceful guild and stay out of guild conflicts.

It's more that Varian's post changed certain peoples' views on what griefing means. I _always_ thought that in Genesis it was a kill for a "crime", no more, no less. With this new perspective straight from the AoP, perspectives shift. That's all we're referring to. This concept of "you looked at me funny, die 25 times" is beyond me, but it was a public note from the AoP, so it's gospel.

[Hunter]

There has been a long standing tradition, in some circles, that an individual offense was as light as 'you are killing in my zone and I don't want the competition'.
What is the difference between what the AoP is talking about now and that tradition?

[Cherek]

It’s a game, and recovery is easy… don’t like fighting? Stay out of high profile guilds or away from certain entities,

Exactly. Random murders are actually quite uncommon in Genesis. If you want no part of PVP and don’t want to risk being killed in PvP (even more than once!), just stay away from it. Join a peaceful guild and stay out of guild conflicts.

It's more that Varian's post changed certain peoples' views on what griefing means. I _always_ thought that in Genesis it was a kill for a "crime", no more, no less. With this new perspective straight from the AoP, perspectives shift. That's all we're referring to. This concept of "you looked at me funny, die 25 times" is beyond me, but it was a public note from the AoP, so it's gospel.

Interesting, I never saw it that way. I always felt that if you kill me, I am allowed to kill you at least twice. One to make it even and then a second time because you started it. Maybe even a third time just to ensure you get the message. After that it’s probably excessive. That’s how I -personally- always felt about that rule. The only official post regarding this is what Varian posted, anything I write here is just my personal thoughts. Just so we’re clear on that. But if you think you can kill someone 25 times for looking at you the wrong way, I think you completely misunderstood what Varian was trying to say.

I am genuinely interested to hear more about this “one kill per crime” philosophy, though. If some thief steals from you 12 times, are you allowed to kill them 12 times or 1 time? If someone kill-steals 45 times, how many times can you kill them? Or does everything “reset” as soon as you score you kill? And then you’re not allowed to kill them again unless they steal from you again? My feeling is that a lot of people believe that is the rule, but that makes no sense in my opinion. There are certainly many times when players have earned to be multi-killed, but maybe they haven’t because people believed they weren’t allowed? Maybe we do need to update that rule in some way? Or maybe so many players spread their own interpretation of the rule that it eventually became the rule? In the minds of most players, that is.

[Rache]

Interesting, I never saw it that way. I always felt that if you kill me, I am allowed to kill you at least twice. One to make it even and then a second time because you started it. Maybe even a third time just to ensure you get the message. After that it’s probably excessive. That’s how I -personally- always felt about that rule. The only official post regarding this is what Varian posted, anything I write here is just my personal thoughts. Just so we’re clear on that. But if you think you can kill someone 25 times for looking at you the wrong way, I think you completely misunderstood what Varian was trying to say.

I am genuinely interested to hear more about this “one kill per crime” philosophy, though. If some thief steals from you 12 times, are you allowed to kill them 12 times or 1 time? If someone kill-steals 45 times, how many times can you kill them? Or does everything “reset” as soon as you score you kill? And then you’re not allowed to kill them again unless they steal from you again? My feeling is that a lot of people believe that is the rule, but that makes no sense in my opinion. There are certainly many times when players have earned to be multi-killed, but maybe they haven’t because people believed they weren’t allowed? Maybe we do need to update that rule in some way? Or maybe so many players spread their own interpretation of the rule that it eventually became the rule? In the minds of most players, that is.

I've felt over the decades [not speaking for Rache] that a kill wipes the slate clean. Perhaps this new meaningless death system nullifies that, but I (believe it or not) have better things to do than try to multi-kill players. I've never* been the aggressor in a multi-kill situation without further provocation.

I think there are some people who are bloodthirstier than others as it relates to their feelings of "ok, now we're even." The way I interpreted the rules, "repeat killings without provocation", was that if someone does something to provoke or otherwise earn a death sentence, you kill them and that's that. If they keep it up or otherwise fail to get the message, you're provoked again, and the cycle continues. Except for Friderick, everyone agrees that he's "kill on sight" regardless.

The AoP message flies in the face of that, and overwrites the existing rules in Genesis with this new information. If it is now the de facto rule, can we please get the "help rules" file updated? If it is not, perhaps it should be redacted and amended. Words matter Rache may choose to continue to feel this way, but this is very new for a lot of people, this concept of "kill them until you feel better about it."