Genesis Forums

Tarax the Terrible wrote:But the arguement could be why can't thieves backstab more than once if they mange to sneak in unseen...??

Actually, thieves can backstab several times by sneaking out of the battle and in, unless you have high awareness, you will always fall into the backstab. Abernomicon used to bounce me with it, it was pretty nasty since every backstab gave a dose of poison. In fact, I am sure he could backstab me two or three times before he showed himself to attack me.

How about creating some leather straps to tie your weapon to your hand? this way you would not be able to release the weapon, but neither rangers could disarm you. Or a strap to prevent the weapon from falling onto the ground? The more times you are disarmed the less effective the strap becomes, until you eventually drop the weapon. Or maybe adding acrobatics check to see if you can hold the weapon with the other hand or pick it from the floor before the ranger is able to pick it up? One thing is sure, unless you are facing a huge ranger, there is no way you will die fighting one (unless you miss your path while blind).

I think the awareness/sneaking brings the issue of what means superior guru skill. If you got superior guru awareness, should you see everything? If you have superior guru sneaking, should you sneak past everything? If both are superior guru, which one should top the other? If both cancel, then awareness would de facto win.

Rhynox wrote: I think the awareness/sneaking brings the issue of what means superior guru skill. If you got superior guru awareness, should you see everything? If you have superior guru sneaking, should you sneak past everything? If both are superior guru, which one should top the other? If both cancel, then awareness would de facto win.

Also, I would hope that stats may play a role on this as well...

Laurel wrote:well - this opponent was indeed in battle ... with another opponent

so tell me (please do ...) that it's harder to sneak up on someone who is focusing on battling someone else ...

Actually I imagine it may sometimes be harder in reality. People who are fighting don't just stand face to face exchanging blows, they are maneuvering around etc. Plus they are pumped up with adrenaline which sharpens the senses and reaction speed. I imagine it is much easier to stab someone in the back than to disarm them too.

Speaking now of course as a trained ex-CIA specialist in "wetwork"

But this is Genesis, of course.

As far as sneaking up on an enemy goes, very highly trained individuals have been sneaking up on other very highly trained individuals, and doing all kinds of things to them, since before humans were walking upright. I don't see why there shouldn't be some of that in Genesis as well.

I am not sure how the code works but how hidden someone is should depend not only on skill levels but stats and equipment as well. It seems reasonable to me that anyone, not just rangers, should always have some kind of chance to hide and sneak successfully. Rangers should do it really well not only because it is a primary skill of theirs but also because it is a key element of their roleplaying and survival tactics and effects like the drop brawl is part of that.

Because Rangers don't have anywhere near the same fire power as other fighting guilds they depend on their defensive specials to even the odds. The Drop Brawl is a cool, unique effect I am pretty sure is there by design and not some oversight. And doesn't really have that much of an impact on fights anyways. To put things in perspective - as a small Ranger I never counted on initial drop brawls for anything. For me they were extremely rare (maybe 1% or 2% of the time) but I generally fought stuff as big or bigger then me. I would guess for larger Rangers it might happen more frequently but not much unless the Ranger is fighting someone much smaller. There is always a chance though...

Now that I am on the other side I might take precautions so as not to loose one of my Sledgehammers, which I definitely do NOT have extras of, but if it happens then life goes on. It beats being some Nazgul's personal bonfire... It is, after all, a big bad world out there and if you aren't careful someone just might steal that nice shiny weapon you love so much...or maybe even kill you for it!!

Abuse of NPC equipment is a different thing altogether. The Ranger officers in my old company took it very seriously but it is hard to nail someone for it. There are all kinds of things in Genesis that are open to abuse though, and I think the drop brawl is pretty low on the list.

Well seeing the old ranger Blob drop brawl Ashburz(aka Bolg) 3 times or so and making a habit as a small ranger as to farm clubs for the knights back in first Angmar war kinda broke that percentage thing you were talking about Grey ;p

amberlee wrote:Well seeing the old ranger Blob drop brawl Ashburz(aka Bolg) 3 times or so and making a habit as a small ranger as to farm clubs for the knights back in first Angmar war kinda broke that percentage thing you were talking about Grey ;p

I was talking about doing it from hiding to initiate the combat and disarm your opponent right away. I think thats what Ilrahil was talking about. As the fight goes on and you continue to brawl eventually you succeed in getting your opponent to drop the weapon. It depends on the size of your opponent and the length of the fight though.

Defensive tactics are good, and brawl is a good defensive tactic. I think its overkill that one can be drop brawled though instead of just forcing them to unwield. Even so it probably isn't unbalanced. initiating combat with a brawl though I think is... espcially if its a drop brawl.

I dont like the drop brawling, never have since I joined, I would much rather get rid of that and increase the time before the enemy can wield again.

Maizara wrote:I dont like the drop brawling, never have since I joined, I would much rather get rid of that and increase the time before the enemy can wield again.

I disagree.
Increased timer at sup guru brawl would actually do so that you could as an ithilien ranger effectively have them disarmed -> Blinded and rknee effectively at the same time.
And that would be overpowered.

I say keep the drop brawl.
And let instead AAs and DAs think twice about what weapon to use when targeting a Ranger

Rhynox wrote:Actually, thieves can backstab several times by sneaking out of the battle and in, unless you have high awareness, you will always fall into the backstab. Abernomicon used to bounce me with it, it was pretty nasty since every backstab gave a dose of poison. In fact, I am sure he could backstab me two or three times before he showed himself to attack me.

Maybe you should write "could" and not "can", unless you actually have any recent experiences proving this.