Genesis Forums

Not just you mate, I really really hate questing too.. thats what stops me from making a second too.. I really hate the living piss out of it.. should just be able to transfere q xp to your seconds so you didnt need to do em again.. I mean wizards know who you and your second is.. and in case they dont, then no xp is needed to transfere..

Questing is a MUST do on genesis and a NEED to do.. Its forced upon you if you want to grow to decent size.. and I dont like do things i HAVE to do, to have a good time.. I just want to have the good time with out NEEDING to quest.. One kind of xp thank you ! and give rewards in quests.. as in scabbard and torque quest.. you get a special thingie..insted of xp..

People are complaining about the players getting to big anyway.. so.. questing only makes you bigger and your death smaller..

Nah

lol

Anahita wrote:Spending ages trying to figure out what noun to look at or verb to use can really be extremely frustrating.

Hence the commands "typo", "bug" and "idea".
If a quest sucks, make sure the immortals get told THAT it sucks, WHAT sucks about it, and preferably HOW to make it better (I believe the HOW is quite important here, if you want results).

Booger wrote:

Anahita wrote:Spending ages trying to figure out what noun to look at or verb to use can really be extremely frustrating.

Hence the commands "typo", "bug" and "idea".
If a quest sucks, make sure the immortals get told THAT it sucks, WHAT sucks about it, and preferably HOW to make it better (I believe the HOW is quite important here, if you want results).

As much as I appreciate your attempt to school me in rudimentary Genesis, your answer is based on narrow assumptions that 1) the problem is because the quest "sucks" and 2) that there is a wizard that has the time and inclination to fix said "sucky" quest.

A bug report isn't going to change the fact that quest docs aren't publically available for Genesis, and it isn't going to change the fact that text-based games function on figuring out how to interact with nouns and verbs.

A quest can be extremely well-written but still frustrating to solve to someone who isnt used to this type of game play. And it can be frustrating to even the most experienced player who is tackling a quest that is deliberately difficult - which is where the aforementioned "inclination" of the wizard to fix it comes in.

Chanele wrote:Nah

Copy-cat.

Anahita wrote:As much as I appreciate your attempt to school me in rudimentary Genesis, your answer is based on narrow assumptions that 1) the problem is because the quest "sucks" and 2) that there is a wizard that has the time and inclination to fix said "sucky" quest.

A bug report isn't going to change the fact that quest docs aren't publically available for Genesis, and it isn't going to change the fact that text-based games function on figuring out how to interact with nouns and verbs.

A quest can be extremely well-written but still frustrating to solve to someone who isnt used to this type of game play. And it can be frustrating to even the most experienced player who is tackling a quest that is deliberately difficult - which is where the aforementioned "inclination" of the wizard to fix it comes in.

This has bothered me for too long now, so I feel I have to repy...

You seem annoyed that I'm trying to school you in "rudimentary Genesis", yet you state that "text-based games function on figuring out how to interact with nouns and verbs" and say that some quests are made deliberately difficult by... poor syntax? Poor hints?

Sounds like you rarely bother to report the things you dislike because what's the point when it won't make any difference? And you accept poor syntax and a lack of hints as a way to make a quest harder.
To me the answer is elementary: DON'T!

There is no reason to accept stupidity and poor coding as a way to make a quest harder. If you have the one ring and stand on mount doom with the lava flood below you, what's the point in having to figure out that you have to type "toss the stupid ring into the hot flood of lava"?
"throw ring" should work. Text based games do not have to be about figuring out how to connect the right nouns with the right verbs. That's ancient. Pre-MUD.

Take this stupid quest to help that Dwarfheim king... Anyone with some brains would ponder bringing him a ladder or a stool or something, to get up by himself. Helping him by hand will obviously not solve his problem, since you won't stay there forever. I found no hints on how to help him, and nothing but the "correct" syntax will give any hints.
Have you reported this stupidity? Have you given any suggestion on how to change it?
Do you honestly think this quest would have stayed unchanged if people who solved it made a bug report saying "Stupid quest! Make it possible to bring him a ladder! Let the king say something if you try to 'help king' or 'ask king throne', to help you figure out what he actually wants from you."?
If everyone made such a report, that quest would have been taken care of, I guarantee it! Problem is that people seem to accept stupid solutions and lack of hints as a way of making a quest harder. And they don't bother reporting things because "nobody bothers" (ie, it wasn't fixed within a week). Everyone has reported some things that never were taken care of. Many seem to see this as good reason to stop bothering.

I went to check my old mails. First three months I was here I got 30 mails (mostly from Gorboth and Lavellan) about different things I had reported. Most of them were to say they had fixed one or several things I'd reported. Last 3 months I've had 16 mails from immortals about things reported. Most of them saying they've been taken care of. Too much bother to check the months in between, but I believe they had a similar frequency.
I don't know how many reports I've made, but I'm pretty sure it's over a thousand (would be fun to know - any imm able to give an answer here?). Can't expect feedback on everything. And can't expect them to fix everything. Last major bug I reported (money bug giving 350pc/min) took three months before they fixed (a major abuse-possibility, it was bug reported, sysbug reported, mailed to immortals, told personally to immortal and noted on this forum), so don't expect fast results when reporting minor things. And give suggestions for solutions - I believe it has a way better chance of getting a result than just "bug This quest sucks!"

I reported that stupid king, btw. With suggestions on how to improve it. Did you?
Nothing has happened yet, but I'm still waiting and hoping. A few months doesn't mean it's been forgotten.

Oh, and the lack of quest docs... That would be bad if the quests were sucky and something you needed docs for. Apparently this is the case now. At least according to you. But instead of demanding quest docs, demand the bad parts of the quests to be improved. If you ever know what to do but have trouble with the syntax, REPORT! Anahita:
You might see this as yet another stupid attempt to school you in rudimentary Genesis.
I see it as an attempt to school everyone in these rudimentary things that so few people actually seem to understand. Maybe you do? If so, I salute you!

Everyone:
How many reports did you write today? This week?
How many praise reports did you write this year?

And I finally got this off my chest! *phew*
Sorry for stealing this thread. Probably ought to be moved to the flames section.

Booger - I think you misunderstood the intent of my original post. I'll try again.

This post started talking about the pains of recovering from death, and then inevitably someone says oh well quest more, and then people (myself included) talk about how questing is difficult.

My point is that if someone is a true newbie, the very nature of the game itself is intimidating and strange. Gaming in general has evolved light years beyond knowing that you should type "lift handle" or that "e" will take you "east", and having introduced more than one person to Genesis I know how utterly intimidating it is to interact in this world. I'm sorry that you take it that this is some kind of pouty bad attitude on my part, it isn't. Its just stating the facts - 1) questing, exploring, functioning in Genesis is hard if you arent used to it, and a system that mandates that you quest to have any hope of not being crippled when you die is going to turn off a lot of new/returning players. 2) Nearly every game I've played in the last five years has a walkthrough online. Gamers are used to this, and that if there is a puzzle that is a little hard they can go somewhere to find a hint or explicit instructions on how to solve the riddle. This isn't true for Genesis, its illegal, and is the second way in which gaming culture has evolved beyond what Genesis offers. A gamer coming to Genesis with the expectations that the interaction is intuitive, or that they can get quest help if they need it, will doubtless be frustrated that neither is true.

I think if you re-read what I've said here you'll see that we don't disagree at all, and I've never said I was unwilling to help (and have in numerous ways over the years.) My stating that there are characteristics of the game that are frustrating, and hard, is by no means a criticism, and shouldn't be taken that way.

Maybe you're right?
What I wrote has been building up more and more, and your post just got the cup to overflow, so I had to get it off my chest - nothing personal, I just hate you

I do realize and do have (a little) symapthy for people who hate questing but are forced to quest. Walkthroughs are common for most games, but every _mud_ I've played has had that same rule - share any knowledge except wiz-only-information and quest solutions.

Maybe walkthroughs are the best solution? I believe it'll defy the purpose of quests - considering how muds are script-based. In most other games, a walkkthrough is something you look at and then try to follow by manually doing what you are told.
Allow walkthroughs for Genesis and my homepage will soon have scripts for all quests I know of (copy my trigger/alias file, go to Sparkle church and type "quest1" to autosolve first quest, "quest2" to autosolve second quest etc.). The only difficulty left would be quests where you have to kill a mob - the rest people will solve without even having a clue what they did.
This is not a threat, btw. Just the way things work. Someone else will definitely spread quest-solver script for zMud users.

I guess I won't even mind that much - I enjoy digging into things, and making quest-solver scripts is fun (made one for Rommik and some for Tutori Isle, and have some ideas for the wednesday quests). It would definitely make all quest-haters happy. But then there would be no real use for any quests except kill-this-npc type quests.

Maybe we aren't disgreeing? Not sure. As long as you report everything you dislike, I guess we're good. I think you're wrong about quest docs, but not sure. And I certainly don't have a perfect or even good solution for it myself.

Hope you understand that my outburst wasn't directed at just you - it was just the final drop of straw that made the wagon tip the iceberg.

I'll stop rambling now... and will stay quiet for at least an hour... maybe.

Detailed walkthroughs that you can write a script from are not necessary at all and could still be illegal. A quest doc written in a narrative style that includes the general information needed to solve the quest but would still require someone to explore the area in some detail is all that is needed. for example:

I came across giants today. Couldn't get out of there fast enough and ran off to the north where I found a cave to hide in. Much to my surprise it was community of dwarves whose king needed a lift up. I noticed a duck waddling around the caves as well. Perhaps THIS is what the orcs have been sacrificing....

This is less information the the illegal quest doc I have gives and no more info (probably less) information then you get if you simply asked someone for help. Since this information is already available to some people it should be available to everyone whether they have a quest doc or not or whether they happen to know someone who can/wants to help them or not.