Laurel and Botting

[Greneth]

Is it personally ruining my gameplay to where it prevents me from playing? No not at all because I can always just go somewhere else and grind, however it harms the game. None of these players would be anywhere close to the size they are without botting. And I firmly believe that size inflation is a problem, we keep trying to go bigger and bigger and have had nothing but problems with it. From Size to items, NPC's, Guild Balance. So while it doesn't directly cause me harm it harms what I believe needs to be changed within the game.

Futhermore it prevents any form on interaction, Cherek says that once they are done botting they are apart of the community. Most of those players involved are not apart of the community and I know for a fact some of them have ignored players right in front of them just to go bot several times. Oddly enough Irk I would say is the most interactive, at least with my various characters. I think it becomes too much of an addiction trying to be the biggest, you forget why the game was created just to try and prove your E-Penis is bigger then everyone elses.

But theres nothing else to do once you reach Myth if you're not into helping newbies/mostly seconds except for grow bigger, I just don't believe we need to allow a fast track for it.

[Laurel]

I can only honestly say anything about scripters, as the last real botters I know of stopped performing that botting in the early 2000'ies. Both were Calians, one happens to be a RL friend of mine who saved my life and the other is a very cool guy as well. One is hardly playing anymore, the other came back for a while.

I am also of the firm stance that I don't give a flying f*ck about a (or a few) KS, as long you're a normal person(ality) and you don't steal an essential item I was looking for in the process.

Other than that my perception is this:
1. positive: scripters improve the odds that if I get a good item/imbue I won't use myself, they will spend the money on AH to buy it - economy; especially important for people struggling with their cash flow at lower levels
example: I have been anonymously selling items on AH I knew Irk would pay hundreds of PC for and he didn't mind that

2. positive: scripters improve the odds I get my hands on good items I can use if I befriend them
example: love the goodies Laurel receives from her friends!

3. negative: scripters decrease the odds I get my hands on good items I can use if they dislike me
example:

The study of the Calian Council. This is a smallish room where the Council can
read its guidelines as set by Caliana, but it's also somewhere to come for a
bit of peace and quiet from the busy world of Genesis. A small oak reading
table and a comfortable chair are the only furniture in the room, which is lit
by the gentle light of candles.
There is one obvious exit: north.
A weather-worn leather backpack (open), two unusual steel swords, an unusual
broad-bladed steel axe, a peculiar heavy shirt of iron chainmail, an unusual
pair of massive iron bracers, an unusual pair of leather boots, a peculiar pair
of steel greaves, an unusual jeweled breastplate, an unusual red silk sash, an
unusual warm fur, an unusual pair of heavy iron bracers, an unusual bronze-
banded white helmet, an unusual black chainmail, a large backpack, a tempered
spear, two foul stygion-black swords, two sledgehammers of the colossus, a
sword of Mergula, eight iridescent rainbow-hued feathers, five glimmering acid-
etched blades, a humming fire battle-axe, a heavy frost club, a gleaming black
cloak and a council guide book sitting on the reading desk.
A friendly young male human wizard and Maxyz.

4. positive: scripters increase my exp per hour per my effort, if I befriend them
example for me: Irk

5. negative: scripters decrease my exp per hour per effort if they dislike me
example for me: BDA, Calians, ogres

6. positive: scripters get more imbues on the market by working on respewning whole areas
example: Straag

7. negative: imbue/head (ogres) scripters drastically screw up exp per hour per effort for lowbies
example: Kretan camp, Dephonian temple, orc camp in Shire, orcs in Sparkle

8. negative: herb scripters decrease the chances manual herbers achieve their own goals
example: skunk berries

Summary:
1 and 6 are all positive for me - get the AH working, get the cash flowing, get the interactions, get RMC pres Irk to approach sellers directly to bypass AH charges, etc.

2/3 and 4/5 are a balance of gameplay. The easiest way would be to just cancel them out, but that wouldn't fit the reality after all. You are free to choose a total asocial prick as RP and you will end up 3+5, or be the friend of all and everybody ending up 2+4. I think this is a personal choice, but being an asocial prick in RL doesn't get you much aid from others as well.

7 is an issue towards lowbies - I sure agree with that. Maybe closing out lowbie areas for biggies is a global solution that could be implemented, with the shiny steel amulet as means to help your lowbie friends with your main biggie char if needed. Similar to the hive in Terel where you shrink to fit. Or instancing grind areas at all - it was suggested somewhere already.

8 is a nuisance I experienced quite often to be honest. Luckily there are still herbalists out there, but reading about some people having stacks of hundreds of healing herbs makes me throw up. It's bad. On the other hand, they didn't get the exp per hour herbing that I got killing ... trade off.

Having said that, let me pull in griefing into the equation.

The biggest griefers I learned in Gen were not accused of botting or even scripting. Not until Seren, Castaneda, Maxyz, Bast and Alisa decided to join the Irk love parade - and I don't accuse any of those of botting neither. Scripting their asses off - HELL YEAH! Irk is a smallfry scripter compared to some of the best exp per hour grinders in this game (I've been on quite a few exp-trains over the years).

[Greneth]

Scripting I dont have a problem with, can't say I'll promote it but I don't mind it one bit. It's the scripting while Sleeping/At work/Watching Porn that annoys me, can't pay attention to the screen? Don't play.

A few things to edit, because of scripting the price of imbuements has gone way down due to how easily obtainable they are now. Scripting hasn't improved the AH it's made it worse by flooding it with items, it's improved the flow of coins but it's also once again instead of being something special to obtain something to make players even larger/stronger on a regular basis. New players benefit the most from selling imbuements, however there are imbuements which use to sell for an easy 200 plats which you'd be lucky to even sell for 10 plats now. Because of how many of them have been flooded due to scripting and botting. Most of the time those imbuements are only bought to help the smaller player out, not because you need the imbuement.

[OgreToyBoy]

.... Most of the time those imbuements are only bought to help the smaller player out, not because you need the imbuement.

Thanks a ton bud, much appreciated.

[Cherek]

Futhermore it prevents any form on interaction, Cherek says that once they are done botting they are apart of the community. Most of those players involved are not apart of the community and I know for a fact some of them have ignored players right in front of them just to go bot several times. Oddly enough Irk I would say is the most interactive, at least with my various characters. I think it becomes too much of an addiction trying to be the biggest, you forget why the game was created just to try and prove your E-Penis is bigger then everyone elses.

Well, that's my experience as a player. Some people can bot all day, and then still be pretty social good RP'ers when they are active. Not everyone of course, but my point there was a reply to Dread who said ALL botters are a waste of space and give nothing to the community. I don't see it as black or white. I do understand your point of view though ad it's always good to hear what people think.

Anyway, me and Mirandus do have a plan and most likely you'll se a rule change pretty soon. Then we'll see how that goes.

[Dread]

...Dread who said ALL botters are a waste of space and give nothing to the community.

As I said in the other thread, I am representing an extreme point of view, not necessarily because it is what I believe, but to further what I believe is the real issue here. We are still in the 'might, should or perhaps' phase of this argument after YEARS of bickering. We should have been using words like 'WILL and DO' a long time ago.

Anyway, me and Mirandus do have a plan and most likely you'll se a rule change pretty soon. Then we'll see how that goes.

I like you Cherek, you seem to be genuinely trying to work on some difficult problems. My innate cynicism says we will see a lasting change to this sometime before christmas though.

[Cherek]

I like you Cherek, you seem to be genuinely trying to work on some difficult problems. My innate cynicism says we will see a lasting change to this sometime before christmas though.

I will bet you 10 plats you'll see new botting rules that are more often enforced before June!

[Dread]

I like you Cherek, you seem to be genuinely trying to work on some difficult problems. My innate cynicism says we will see a lasting change to this sometime before christmas though.

I will bet you 10 plats you'll see new botting rules that are more often enforced before June!

Awfully vague there Cherek... Awfully vague indeed.

[Cherek]

I like you Cherek, you seem to be genuinely trying to work on some difficult problems. My innate cynicism says we will see a lasting change to this sometime before christmas though.

I will bet you 10 plats you'll see new botting rules that are more often enforced before June!

Awfully vague there Cherek... Awfully vague indeed.

Before June 1 the year 2015, commonly known as this year. And to be clear, that is in 24 days from the time of posting this note.

Better?:)

I am bravely challenging the wizard "rule" to never promise any dates! (But just this once, in general I think that's a good rule)

[Alisa]

I'll take you up on the bet.

Hoping it will be win-win