Regarding quest experience

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Zugzug
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Regarding quest experience

Post by Zugzug » 06 May 2019 22:11

I moved this discussion to its own thread, since it derailed the discussion about alignment and QXP. -Moderator
Rincon wrote:I would actually like to see the qcap raised :)
As I am sure, everyone who got to cheat with Archwizard Stern on the qxp multiplier, would.

Or people who got to do the torque quest a "few times more than two" (yes).

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Mim
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Re: Quests with alignment restrictions

Post by Mim » 08 May 2019 10:28

Zugzug wrote:
Rincon wrote:I would actually like to see the qcap raised :)
As I am sure, everyone who got to cheat with Archwizard Stern on the qxp multiplier, would.

Or people who got to do the torque quest a "few times more than two" (yes).
I have been around here for quite a while now, and even if I have heard the rumours about a ”time hole” when there was a high multiplier of achieved quest experience, I always treated it as a non verified rumour.
Yes, it is most likely true that during a period there was given more qxp for quests than when others did them, but I fail to belive this was something done on purpose to gain a specifik player or group of players.
For this Id like more facts rather than rumours.

If people did a Major quest several times Id like to call this an exploit of a bug.
No quest should be able to be done more than once.
If someone found out there was a quest, major or minor, that could be done more than once, he (or she) should report this immidiately. Doing it a third time (or more) is a bad thing, and a severe punishment looks like what one could expect.
As an explorer, you have done enough to retire.

Daerin
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Re: Quests with alignment restrictions

Post by Daerin » 08 May 2019 16:43

Zugzug wrote:
Rincon wrote:I would actually like to see the qcap raised :)
As I am sure, everyone who got to cheat with Archwizard Stern on the qxp multiplier, would.

Or people who got to do the torque quest a "few times more than two" (yes).

Wait, what???
All I got from Stern was punishment for using quest solutions...So I LOST qxp during his time in power....

Zugzug
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Re: Quests with alignment restrictions

Post by Zugzug » 12 May 2019 16:01

Mim wrote:
Zugzug wrote:
Rincon wrote:I would actually like to see the qcap raised :)
As I am sure, everyone who got to cheat with Archwizard Stern on the qxp multiplier, would.

Or people who got to do the torque quest a "few times more than two" (yes).
I have been around here for quite a while now, and even if I have heard the rumours about a ”time hole” when there was a high multiplier of achieved quest experience, I always treated it as a non verified rumour.
Yes, it is most likely true that during a period there was given more qxp for quests than when others did them, but I fail to belive this was something done on purpose to gain a specifik player or group of players.
For this Id like more facts rather than rumours.

If people did a Major quest several times Id like to call this an exploit of a bug.
No quest should be able to be done more than once.
If someone found out there was a quest, major or minor, that could be done more than once, he (or she) should report this immidiately. Doing it a third time (or more) is a bad thing, and a severe punishment looks like what one could expect.
This is why I think it would be beneficial for Genesis as a game to have admins come out and say: "Look, we had cheats in the past: (list them so people like yourself don't go around accusing others of spreading lies, etc) but we have fixed them and punished those responsible (and in what way!)"

I don't really care what you belive or do not belive, since you are not an active Genesis player, but if you want facts - you should start asking questions of wizards.

For completing quests more than once/receiving significantly more quest xp than a quest is supposed to give - any wizard interested in knowing the details would just pull up the total quest experience of some players who are over the cap. And think long and hard, how it is possible to have 30%, 50%, 100% or actually MORE than 100% of quest xp OVER the cap limit (even considering that there are some old quests unavailable now, etc).

Of course, the standard "go-to" answer to anything of this sort has always been "everything works perfectly, we have checks and balances and our formulae work" (lol).

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Cherek
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Re: Quests with alignment restrictions

Post by Cherek » 13 May 2019 13:38

Zugzug: I can't really comment on things that took place two decades ago since I wasn't a wizard then, but I can comment on things that has happened while I've been admin. Yes, there has been both players and wizards who cheated in different ways. That's not something we try to hide, but not something we usually announce either. I've caught quite a few players during my time as AoP, and I dealt with (I think) a total of three cheating wizards during my time as AoD. The wizards were, just like the players, punished for their cheats.

At the time I considered, and we discussed, if we should start naming cheaters in public, and there are pros and cons of doing that. Doing it could act as a deterrent for others, and it also helps to show players that cheaters (wizards included) don't get away with it, which definitely could be beneficial for mortal-wizard relations. On the other hand, publicly listing a wizard as a cheater would basically "kill" the career of that wizard, and publicly branding a player as a cheater would be a very hard punishment as well. So, is it worth that? Or is it better to handle it internally and give them a second chance (at least if the "crime" is relatively minor)? I opted for the second approach, since none of those I caught did something horribly bad. But if someone repeatedly cheats, or a wizard cheats so badly they are deleted, then I am not against publicly naming them to set an example. We've done so in some cases in the past, the most recent example being Irk. For minor incidents I think it's better to handle it more privately.

As for the quest experience:

Well, yes, I could look at a player and notice they have more QXP than the cap, and wonder how that happened. Unfortunately, there is usually no record on _how_ a player got their XP. Sure, you could check all their quest bits (the thing that saves which quests you have finished) manually, and compare it against the total quest XP they have, but that would be a very time consuming mess to untangle. And even so, I would have no idea how they got the "extra" QXP. If the character is very old, they most likely have XP from old closed quests (like in old Emerald), and they most likely have some amount of event reward QXP, + the weekly quest + possibly rewards for other things they have done. And they could also benefit from being created at a time when quests were more rewarding. But Genesis is 30 years old, and some players are 25+ years old. There are A LOT of ways they could have both gained, and like in Daerin's case, lost QXP during the years.

Our rules and policies have changed a lot during this time as well. For example you obviously don't get punished for using quest solutions these days, but once that was the case and people lost QXP as punishment. QXP was sometimes also used the other way, to reward players who did something exceptional for the game or community. (These days we tend to use imbuement stones as rewards instead) Unfortunately, there is usually no record of these things, and if there are, the amount of the reward / punishment usually isn't mentioned.

So, yes, some (very few) players are above the cap in terms of QXP, but it the majority of cases it's most likely due to being old or simply being lucky and creating the character at the right time in history. Could some have cheated? Yes, it's obviously a possibility. During 30 years, it's of course likely that some wizards and players have at some point cheated and gotten away with it. Did some cheats include QXP? No idea.

Now, I have looked into these things a couple of years ago (when I was AoP), and from what I learned we're talking about perhaps a handful of players who still are active, and they are all very old characters, and we're not talking about a lot of extra QXP either. So, my conclusion is that they got it mainly from old quests, events, and possibly some other reward, or was created during the time when you gained more from quests. I have definitely not found any players who has as much QXP as you claim. Not even close. But if you know of specific player who has as much as you claim, I am only a mail or PM away.

As for the QXP cap and the QXP multiplier thing, Gorboth's post from when the cap was introduced, and the discussion that followed is still around on the forums: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1082

It's written 9 years ago though, and I some things have been adjusted and tweaked since then. For example the quest XP progress indicator was added, and the cap was also set somewhat higher than the combined amount of XP for all quests. So, Gorboth's statement saying "if you solved all quests in the orbs you have reached the cap" is for example no longer valid. So, don't see everything in that post and thread as facts today, but rather as a piece of history where you can read about the reasoning and discussions when the cap was originally introduced.

That's basically all I know about this. Hope it's helpful to clear out some rumours and misconceptions at least. See, Zugzug, not your standard "goto"-answer! :)

Poultry
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Re: Regarding quest experience

Post by Poultry » 25 May 2019 01:47

I think there's one other point here as well, with Zugzug's assertion that the qxp cap should be raised. For that to happen, we'd need more quests. For more quests to happen, we'd need more people writing quests. So you could always wiz and write a few yourself.

I would be willing to bet my (Genesis) bank account that if enough new quests were added, admin would raise the qxp cap.

Draugor
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Re: Regarding quest experience

Post by Draugor » 25 May 2019 23:03

Poultry wrote:I think there's one other point here as well, with Zugzug's assertion that the qxp cap should be raised. For that to happen, we'd need more quests. For more quests to happen, we'd need more people writing quests. So you could always wiz and write a few yourself.

I would be willing to bet my (Genesis) bank account that if enough new quests were added, admin would raise the qxp cap.

We could just remove them and make it easy... or make them not the most ass-boring part of growing :P Or share between alts or something (registered alts ofc atleast one of them)

Kvator
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Re: Regarding quest experience

Post by Kvator » 26 May 2019 01:38

Draugor wrote: We could just remove them and make it easy... or make them not the most ass-boring part of growing :P Or share between alts or something (registered alts ofc atleast one of them)
Yes, cause killing same mobs over and over again is soooo much more exciting!

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Drazson
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Re: Regarding quest experience

Post by Drazson » 26 May 2019 17:53

Draugor wrote:[...]Or share between alts or something (registered alts [...]
Yes. Maybe leave some more intricate quests out of it (torque or staff of aeria?) but YES. I mean, I do not want to look for that ball again in Shire or repair that wagon in Sparkle or *and I will really win you over here* attend the tour in Gelan.

You go talk to the starting NPC:
"Ah, I know that look. Reminds me of him/her... *weak smile*. *I had this problem line here* *X time ago* until a *insert adjectives* *insert noun(s)* came by, stormed through my troubles... *smiles with mixed feelings* You have the same fire in your eyes... Do not ever lose it, you hear me?" *smiles widely and returns to moving hay around*.

I know that it won't really come to pass but account-wideness is an awesome feature in general. Makes everything feel less like a grind and more purposeful.

Draugor
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Re: Regarding quest experience

Post by Draugor » 27 May 2019 06:11

Drazson wrote:
Draugor wrote:[...]Or share between alts or something (registered alts [...]
Yes. Maybe leave some more intricate quests out of it (torque or staff of aeria?) but YES. I mean, I do not want to look for that ball again in Shire or repair that wagon in Sparkle or *and I will really win you over here* attend the tour in Gelan.

You go talk to the starting NPC:
"Ah, I know that look. Reminds me of him/her... *weak smile*. *I had this problem line here* *X time ago* until a *insert adjectives* *insert noun(s)* came by, stormed through my troubles... *smiles with mixed feelings* You have the same fire in your eyes... Do not ever lose it, you hear me?" *smiles widely and returns to moving hay around*.

I know that it won't really come to pass but account-wideness is an awesome feature in general. Makes everything feel less like a grind and more purposeful.
Would be nice eh? Not having to redo quests that probably are bugging out, not spawning for hours etc when you've already pained through it once already

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