The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

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Which is more suited?

The Ticklers of Angmar
3
16%
The Masters of Slow Growth
2
11%
The Intentionally Held Back Experience Crew
2
11%
The Buzz Killjoys of the Misty Mountains
1
5%
The Elephants in the Room
0
No votes
The Forgotten Plague of old who are now Innoculated
1
5%
The Unplayable Force of the Lich King
1
5%
The Snails of Experience
1
5%
The Masochist Army of Empty Guildhalls
8
42%
 
Total votes: 19

Zugzug
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Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Post by Zugzug » 22 Jul 2019 03:33

Arman wrote:
nils wrote:
Meercat wrote:And now, back to the Angmar discussion which will be roundly dismissed by the immortals who hate evil players! Enjoy!
Nailed it.
That's not true. We hate all players equally ;P
That is about as true as what you told me about calians not being able to swarm with non-impaling weapons.

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Arman
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Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Post by Arman » 22 Jul 2019 04:00

Zugzug wrote:
That is about as true as what you told me about calians not being able to swarm with non-impaling weapons.
In fairness, I genuinely thought they couldn't. That's how swarm was originally created... an impaling special that worked best with a polearm. Looks like in the 2008 port to the standardised special attack system that got changed.

Draugor
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Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Post by Draugor » 22 Jul 2019 09:08

Arman wrote:
nils wrote:
Meercat wrote:And now, back to the Angmar discussion which will be roundly dismissed by the immortals who hate evil players! Enjoy!
Nailed it.
That's not true. We hate all players equally ;P
Alltho AA recieves alittle more hate :o Almost as if y'all salty over AA's kicking your asses in the past ;)

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nils
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Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Post by nils » 22 Jul 2019 11:42

Arman wrote:That's not true. We hate all players equally ;P
In all fairness, Arman, how about looking through the antics and give a solid answer to the core that has spawned these antics rather than the antics themselves?

You are Arch of Balance. I, and many others, see a very, comparatively, underpowered guild. We have aired our concerns and our suggestions to bring it up to "modern" standards. They even require little effort to implement and if you yourself lack the time to follow through I can suggest a handful who can. If you, the Arch of Balance, find faults in our reasoning, please enlighten us so that we too can see the wisdom, for as of now it's shrouded in gossip and mystery.

By refusing to, you add fuel to the rumours that the administration are treating the Army of Angmar as a delinquent step-child, being kept in the dark deliberately in fear or another angmar-war. As absurd as it may seem, this is currently the leading theory as to why you persist in holding it back.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

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Arman
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Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Post by Arman » 22 Jul 2019 13:38

nils wrote:
Arman wrote:That's not true. We hate all players equally ;P
In all fairness, Arman, how about looking through the antics and give a solid answer to the core that has spawned these antics rather than the antics themselves?

You are Arch of Balance. I, and many others, see a very, comparatively, underpowered guild. We have aired our concerns and our suggestions to bring it up to "modern" standards. They even require little effort to implement and if you yourself lack the time to follow through I can suggest a handful who can. If you, the Arch of Balance, find faults in our reasoning, please enlighten us so that we too can see the wisdom, for as of now it's shrouded in gossip and mystery.

By refusing to, you add fuel to the rumours that the administration are treating the Army of Angmar as a delinquent step-child, being kept in the dark deliberately in fear or another angmar-war. As absurd as it may seem, this is currently the leading theory as to why you persist in holding it back.
Nils, I think you need to go back to the discussions around the combat aid bug with special attacks to understand why it isn't a simple fix. Not sure if you were active when it was being discussed, but have a look at some of the previous discussions:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4577
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4576&p=42606&hilit= ... bug#p42606

So there is a global issue with special attacks which we still need to address. The bottom line is those guilds that currently have more of their combat aid sitting in offensive specials benefit greatly over those that are defensive in nature. For a guild like the Calians or the Dragonarmies, where all their combat aid sits in in offensive, they get more bang for their buck... while defensive guilds like the Neidar, Angmar, and monks comparatively get left behind.

So your point is valid. But the fix is a global one, because it isn't just the Army of Angmar suffering the balance issue. It is pretty much every guild in the game. And while we have come up with a number of possible solutions for the global bug, we haven't agreed as an administration on which one we should implement... any will have seismic impacts on the game.

None of this is new info... there is no tinfoil-hat conspiracy against the AA.

Amberlee
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Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Post by Amberlee » 22 Jul 2019 14:04

Well Arman.
The fact remains.
AA is supposed to be THE tanking guild of evils, yet they tank worse then mercenaries(And also do less damage by the way).
You can even argue that SS tanks better.
Shouldn't they be on par with say.. Neidar?
Or even Calian tanks?
Something they are VERY far from being.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Draugor
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Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Post by Draugor » 22 Jul 2019 14:13

They should atleast be good at something, atleast make them decent tanks :P Hell tanks are not needed as such sadly since people speedkill before damage is sustained in mythgrinders.

But they should be on par with neidar especially since they are damn close to them in damage, tankwise they are miles from it tho. Hell on greenskins neidar prolly produce more damage aswell, especially with the new branch :P

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nils
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Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Post by nils » 22 Jul 2019 14:57

Arman,

I remember the "discovery", and I was glad you decided not to move on a "global nerf" and kept things the way they are. However, what you are saying is that every comparable (to AA) guild in genesis is way overpowered and that the Army of Angmar is the only one that is as every other guild should be, post-fix.

Now, that is an acceptable and believable answer if every other new guild added to the game fell under the same standards now wouldn't it? Because truth is, you, the Arch of Balance, recently accepted a new guild (Assassins) which also, by your definition, are overpowered (compared to AA).

Should at least the new guilds added to the game heed to whatever standard is correct?

Considering this fact, add AA playability, the very easy update suggested, you are simply omitting a truth/only remaining conclusion - you have no interest of making AA anything other than a guild for newbies.

Secondly, I have never commented on the effectiveness of the defensives of AA. The problem lie elsewhere; the player size and redundancy of defensive capabilities gained from guild membership after reaching a certain size, effectively rendering the guild a newbie guild. The game itself and it's players have outgrown the guild's design, and I suggested a quick and easy update to fix it.

Realistically, how much time will pass until all guilds of Genesis has been, one by one, adjusted to AA-level? 6 months? 3 years? 5 years? Never?

Isn't the right thing to do to comment out the existing (correct, according to you) code, add a code comparable to the other guilds and once global change is happening - switch them out?

Again, if you haven't the time, I can point to someone who can.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

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Arman
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Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Post by Arman » 22 Jul 2019 15:36

nils wrote:Arman,

I remember the "discovery", and I was glad you decided not to move on a "global nerf" and kept things the way they are. However, what you are saying is that every comparable (to AA) guild in genesis is way overpowered and that the Army of Angmar is the only one that is as every other guild should be, post-fix.

Now, that is an acceptable and believable answer if every other new guild added to the game fell under the same standards now wouldn't it? Because truth is, you, the Arch of Balance, recently accepted a new guild (Assassins) which also, by your definition, are overpowered (compared to AA).

Should at least the new guilds added to the game heed to whatever standard is correct?

Considering this fact, add AA playability, the very easy update suggested, you are simply omitting a truth/only remaining conclusion - you have no interest of making AA anything other than a guild for newbies.
The new guild uses standardised specials. Once the fix to the bug is decided and implemented they'll be impacted just like every other guild. You're using logical fallacy in your argument by linking the bug and the introduction of a new guild to proof of anti-AA sentiment of the administration. This is tinfoil hat paranoia.

If you had half a clue, you would know I am not anti-AA. When the AA were originally closed for thematic reasons by the liege of Gondor, I was liege of Ansalon at the time. I railed long and hard against the closure. I then brought the guildmaster of the AA, Milan, over to Krynn and we created an entire replacement guild for those evil warrior players who were left with no evil guild option - the Dragonarmies. And I've always had a close connection with the original playerbase of the AAs - like Deproelius and Denethor and Hawk - from the day the guild originally opened, and I've always appreciated what AA brought to the game... in the same way i've always appreciated a number of the old 90s guilds.

So when you go off on your conspiracy theories, I just shake my head. Sometimes being a coder really is thankless.
nils wrote: Realistically, how much time will pass until all guilds of Genesis has been, one by one, adjusted to AA-level? 6 months? 3 years? 5 years? Never?
All quite possible. The PoT recode took over 10 years.
nils wrote: Isn't the right thing to do to comment out the existing (correct, according to you) code, add a code comparable to the other guilds and once global change is happening - switch them out?
The right thing to do is implement the global fix. I am not a fan of a temporary solution... and as for priorities for fixing, the AA sit behind rangers and monks.

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nils
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Re: The Army of Angmar needs a new name.

Post by nils » 22 Jul 2019 15:53

Arman wrote:The right thing to do is implement the global fix. I am not a fan of a temporary solution... and as for priorities for fixing, the AA sit behind rangers and monks.
I respect the notion of introducing global fixes, but when chances are they are delayed by years, not weeks, temporary fixes are rightfully called for until global change is ready. And sure, I agree rangers and monks need fixing, but again - the fix I'm suggesting takes about as much time as it takes to boot whatever FTP-client is used, while Rangers and Monks require massive re-codes lacking manpower (or maybe, for some, will) to do so. Meanwhile, the Army of Angmar suffers needlessly for years.

Again, if you can't spare time to, I can point to someone who can.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

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